>From owner-ietf@xxxxxxxx Sat Jan 03 07:53:04 2004 Received: from ietf.org ([10.27.2.28]) by asgard.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1AclGa-000348-7i for ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:52:32 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA00689 for <ietf@xxxxxxxx>; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 07:52:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AclGW-00034q-00 for ietf@xxxxxxxx; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:52:28 -0500 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1AclEg-00031b-00 for ietf@xxxxxxxx; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:50:35 -0500 Received: from smtp6.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.22.25] helo=mwinf0604.wanadoo.fr) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AclDD-0002xP-00 for ietf@xxxxxxxx; Sat, 03 Jan 2004 07:49:03 -0500 Received: from liber.mose.fr (APh-Aug-108-1-4-148.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr [81.248.240.148]) by mwinf0604.wanadoo.fr (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DA72128000D7; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:48:31 +0100 (CET) Received: by liber.mose.fr (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9D8B230037; Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:48:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:48:16 +0100 From: mose <mose@xxxxxxx> To: Paul Robinson <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx, isdf@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [isdf] Re: www.internetforce.org Message-ID: <20040103124816.GQ10070@xxxxxxx> Mail-Followup-To: Paul Robinson <paul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ietf@xxxxxxxx, isdf@xxxxxxxx References: <1072620368.2651.18.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <3FF037F5.2060907@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FF037F5.2060907@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> X-OS: Linux Debian User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 le Mon, Dec 29, 2003 at 02:19:33PM +0000 par Paul Robinson : > Franck Martin wrote: > > >Who are we to recommend things as Mike Todd suggests? > > > End-users. We're end-users of the Internet. Everybody who uses it should > be entitled to join any body that determines it's future, and any body > that has influence that is free to join therefore has the right to > recommend actions for it's future. Think of it as an abstract form of > democracy. I live in the UK and Paliament has every right to pass laws > because I voted them into that position, and likewise if I want to > become a politician I can do so and pass my own laws... Same thing here, > except you actually need a clue to participate in IETF rather than just > look good kissing babies. - I have to say something there. No internet user is an end-user very long. The broadcast era of massmedia is still in people habits but it's from the last century and there is no technical reason anymore to limit the decisionnal/informational processes to an elit of either good-looking babes either wise diplomed experts. About politician, I don't vote them because they vote their own laws, not mine. I don't understand how it would be a solution if I switch and become politician to vote my own laws. Politics is very cool for peace in material world because it's a convention to make everybody to say 'yes' before knowing what will be decided (notice that the 'no' alternative usually requires unusual creative abilities or direct exclusion, with various degrees of subtility in the way to exclude). I think that online it's different. People decide by 'not saying no', as it's rather pointless to say 'yes' when you are in a consensual situation with thousand, millions or more of people it would be very noisy. It's working like that for more than 30 years now and I think we could learn from it. Every standard proposed can be of any quality, if nobody apply them it's only intellectual research with no societal impact. I take as example the ipv6 implementation that we wonder "why we don't have it yet" for years, the story of the HTML specifications and the respect of it. In such context, a more participative behaviour should be welcome. Elits should help and educate rather than keeping the steering so firmly. RFC aren't they meaning "Request For Comments" ? Why did I never find the button "add your comment", yet, on any of them ? my $cents = 2; mose