Pekka, PN> that stable end-point identifiers are mainly needed to make PN> applications survive IP address changes. Dave Crocker's MAST PN> is a good example how you can do that without having stable PN> end-point identifiers. In general I suggest we find some specific scenarios that require a new construct for end-point identifiers. Most discussions treat the abstraction without being clear about the details of use. With concrete scenarios, it is possible to consider alternatives... or agree that none is viable. PN> On the other hand, security looks to me as a good reason for PN> having stable end-point identifiers. and rendezvous. any reference to an object that requires use outside of an existing context. PN> Even facing the danger of opening yet another rat hole, in my PN> opinion we should not have a very strict definition for end-point. ... PN> From my point of view, an end-point may be a process, a group of PN> processes, a host, or even a server cluster offering services as Just for fun, let's start by using the term "domain name" and try to understand why it will not suffice. domain names have been successfully used for all of the examples you give. d/ -- Dave Crocker <mailto:dcrocker@brandenburg.com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <http://www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>, <fax:+1.866.358.5301>