> They defined ethernet. It is they who would best determine how to carry > ethernet over another protocol and keep current ethernet correctness. Sure, but what about IP network correctness (e.g., security or congestion control)? > Certainly IETF-ers would be useful participants, but keep in mind that > transport protocol discussions usually focus at the transport layer (in > this case, ethernet) with experts thereof, not at the IP layer. I'm confused... Transport Layer (as in Layer 4) or "transport layer"[?] (as in Layer 2)? Regardless, being an Internet "user", I'd prefer they be defined in the IETF. > That may be the case, i.e., case for a joint group, but this is clearly > outside sole-IETF scope per se. You've obviously observed IEEE member participation in these IETF WGs, hence your comments regarding semantics discussions... And I don't recall anyone saying discard input from individual members or officially from the "original host organization", quite the contrary, actually. I think the IESG (& IAB) saw value in performing this work in the IETF largely because transporting these protocols (e.g., Layer 2 protocols) over IP networks was going to happen, regardless, and you could have it only one of two ways: o Ethernet (e.g.) PRECISELY specified over IP or o Ethernet specified over IP in an IP-friendly manner (I'm sure the "original host organization" would make attempts, but the expertise for doing things in an IP-friendly manner clearly resides within the IETF). You're not going to get both. IMO, the best you can hope (as an IETF-type) is the latter, with as much interaction and input from the "original host organization" and service providers as possible. And whether you like the general idea of carrying these protocols over IP or not, well, that's your prerogative, but service providers are going to _continue to deploy them -- over the same _IP networks they're carrying their Internet data on. As an aside, PWE3 is in the Transport Area, not the Sub-IP Area, which is what this thread was initially intended to address. -danny