Joe> Many of these discussions (layer 2 VPNs, in particular) would be better Joe> served by occuring within the context of their original host Joe> organization (i.e., IEEE for ethernet over IP), since it was those Joe> organizations that defined those LANs, and they who would best comment Joe> on the correctness (or lack) of proposed solutions. IEEE is certainly not the right place to determine how to carry ethernet data and control frames over IP networks. Nor is it the right place to design the auto-discovery mechanisms for figuring out which IP systems need to connect to which other IP systems in order to provide layer 2 VPN services. Nor is it the right place to determine how the characteristics of IP networks may be leveraged to optimize for layer 2 VPNs. Nor is it the right place to address the scalability, security, and applicability issues of layer 2 VPNs over IP networks. In fact, the IEEE 802.1 participants who are following the layer 2 VPN work have not even claimed that these issues fall within their scope. While I am not a big fan of emulating ethernet networks over IP networks, this is a pretty clear example of a topic that has both IETF and IEEE components, and which needs attention from BOTH groups.