Mastaka / Bill, >> Michel Py wrote: >> In terms of design, if you do TCP/IP *only* design, the TCP/IP model is >> probably enough. However, the Internet is not only TCP/IP. Carriers, for >> example, don't care much if their fiber transports TCP/IP or IPX or >> voice or video or GigE. > Masataka Ohta wrote: > No. > Anything at or above transport layer is a layer internal to > end systems and has nothing to do with networking or network > protocols. Seperation of transport and application layers is > a overkill for a best effort network, though it may help > standardize the internal design of end systems such that > anything supported by kernel belong the transport layer. You > can check the reality that application and transport areas > of IETF are now almost identical, though, historically, > trasnsport area was working on protocols likely to be > implemented in kernel. In addition, defining a thin transport > layer may be useful over a hypothetical port-number-aware > network such as that supporting RSVP. However, forcibly > defining a session-layer-aware network is a layer violation. I don't disagree for the upper part of the model, but all the examples I have used in this thread were about the lower part of the model. >> Michel Py wrote: >> And, there are complex multi-protocol networks that a) don't >> use only TCP/IP and b) would not be able to use the TCP/IP >> model anyway because it's too simple. > Bill Cunnigham wrote: > * Would not be able to use TCP/IP.* > How can that be changed? If I had to design a model it would be: Michel's TCP/IP OSI model model model +--------------+ +---------------+ +---+--------------+ ! ! ! ! ! 7 ! Application ! ! ! ! ! +---+--------------+ ! Application ! ! Application ! ! 6 ! Presentation ! ! ! ! ! +---+--------------+ ! ! ! ! ! 5 ! Session ! +--------------+ +---------------+ +---+--------------+ ! Transport ! ! Transport ! ! 4 ! Transport ! +--------------+ +---------------+ +---+--------------+ ! Network ! ! Internet ! ! 3 ! Network ! +--------------+ +---------------+ +---+------+-------+ ! Logical Link ! ! ! ! ! Data ! LLC ! +--------------+ ! Network ! ! 2 ! Link +-------+ ! Media Access ! ! Interface ! ! ! ! MAC ! +--------------+ ! ! +---+------+-------+ ! Physical ! ! ! ! 1 ! Physical ! +--------------+ +---------------+ +---+--------------+ I understand that people that have used the TCP/IP model don't care much of what's inside the Network Interface layer, but there is a bunch of stuff there that could use layering. That's why, short of having my very own model drawn above, I keep using the OSI one for explanatory/educational purposes. Michel.