I thought of another point: soon (please!) gtk will come with a nice cairo canvas widget which ought to be able to replace the drawing code of a lot of applications. All of this messy detail and noise will just vanish and we won't have to worry about retained vs. non-retained mode. The nastiest thing most apps might have to do is to roll a few custom canvas items. John _______________________________________________ gtk-list mailing list gtk-list@xxxxxxxxx http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list