On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 01:41:11PM +1100, Malcolm Tredinnick wrote: > You may not agree with the decision (I did not, at the time), but > calling it stupid is unreasonable. If you would like to use a window > manager with viewports, then go for it. GNOME is not a window manager. > It does work fairly well with EWMH-compliant window. For example, > searching the archives I point to above (or reading the old GNOME 2.0 > release notes) will show you how to set up Sawfish to have a viewport > behaviour. Sage advise. As it so happens, I went back and reviewed that README. I remember now, that it didn't work for me. But now I know why. RedHat RPM's even now (even RawHide and Fedora) are SawFish 1.x and they don't have SawFish2 rpms. So, every version of SawFish I build barfed error messages about those commands in the .sawfishrc file and so I gave up on SawFish without realy knowing why. My error for not reading more closely. As it so happens (and I mentioned in another message) I was already in the process of downloading Enlightenment. I'm now back on Enlightenment and it's working perfectly (even down to my old settings). I've got a RedHat 9 RPM for Enlightment, so that may well be my get-outa-jail-free card since I don't have a viable SawFish2 to work from. The only peculiarity with Enlightenment is that it's in "the other camp" from SawFish with regards to hybrid desktops of multiple virtual workspaces. Some WMs treat virtual workspaces as a true full three dimensions where the workspace number is the Z axis and the horizontal and vertical axis are X and Y relative to the XWindows root +0+0. Others treat them as independent rooms or desktops. I've got script functions that compute offsets and "geometry" coords based on where the viewport is based those coords when starting windows from scripts, even if the target is to be placed on a viewport with negative offset from the current viewport. Actually pretty simple to script and coordinate with the X-Toolkit geometry option. Haven't found a way to portably map new apps to differnet workspaces (yes, another reason why view ports are superior) in either paradigm, though. But these script functions work with virtual desktops perfectly in BOTH paradigms. SawFish, and others, treated it as a true three dimensional system where, if you moved in the X and Y offsets in one desktop, you moved your viewport in all desktops simultaniously. That's where my mental paradigm is right now. It's easy to comprehend spacially. Good intuitive feel. I generally don't even have to look at the keyboard or screen to know where I will end up with a set of keystrokes (it doesn't depend on past state). Enlightenment, and others, treat each desktop independently, maintaining an origin in each desktop so you can move around in one desktop and not affecting another desktop. Elegant and reasonable. Why SHOULD one workspace affect another. You have to remember what viewport you were in when you were last in that workspace. A simple X/Y position from the last workspace doesn't help. But it's not quite a gestault. The desktop should be a whole... A concept... A model and a visualization... But, maybe not... Not sure which I like better. The old SawFish paradigm was easy to visualize and conceptualize. The Enlightenment paradign is easy to conceptualize and rationalize and not so easy to visualize (when you are in the middle of 24 systems on a set of KVMs with vitual screens and workspaces and virtual desktops and X and Y and Z - Yes that is my everyday environment). Takes a little getting use to, but at least it works... But now it feels like old home... In each case... The whole (multiple workspaces of two dimensions of virtual workspace) are much greater than the mere sum of the two paradigms. It may be possible to make it work under SawFish2 but it's looking more and more like Enlightenment is the way to go. But I appreciate the pointers. I found new stuff and new answers tonight. That's a good night! I've made progress, now, when I've been stalled for months... :-) > Malcolm Thanks again! Mike -- Michael H. Warfield | (770) 985-6132 | mhw@xxxxxxxxxxxx /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it!
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