On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 08:26:41AM -0800, Elijah Newren wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 10:55 AM Junio C Hamano <gitster@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Elijah Newren <newren@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >
> > > Adding such an ability to merge-tree would be trivial -- it basically
> > > involves just two things: (1) accepting one extra argument, and (2)
> > > calling merge_incore_nonrecursive() instead of
> > > merge_incore_recursive().
> > >
> > > However, I think forking a subprocess for every merge of a series of
> > > commits is a completely unreasonable overhead, so even if we provide
> > > such an option to merge-tree, I still want a separate plumbing-ish
> > > tool that does non-worktree/non-index replaying of commits which is
> > > not written as a driver of merge-tree. That other tool should just
> > > call merge_incore_nonrecursive() directly. And such a tool, since it
> > > should handle an arbitrary number of commits, should certainly be able
> > > to handle just one commit. From that angle, it feels like adding
> > > another mode to merge-tree would just be a partial duplication of the
> > > other tool.
I don't think "to avoid duplication" is a good argument for making this
plumbing command less flexible, because that's just chasing a local minimum
w.r.t. redundancy. More general APIs will lead to a global minimum.
> >
> > The above does not make much sense to me.
> >
> > I am hearing that "multi-step cherry-picks and reverts need to be
> > fast and we need something like sequencer that is all written in C,
>
> Yes, I agree with that part so far. jj is kicking our butt on rebase
> speed; I'm not sure if we can catch it, but it'd be nice to see us not
> be more than a hundred times slower.
>
> > and single-step cherry-pick is merely a special case that does not
> > deserve a plumbing".
>
> Well, apparently I failed at communication if that's what you heard.
> Perhaps I can step back and provide my high-level goals, and then
> mention how this series fits in. My high-level goals:
>
> * new sequencer-like replay tool, including multiple abilities
> today's rebase/cherry-pick tools don't have
> * enable folks to use merging machinery for server side operations
> (merge, rebase, cherry-pick, revert)
> * do not repeat or encourage the rebase-as-shell-script mistakes of yesteryear
> * somehow split this up into reviewable chunks
>
> Now, in particular, the "merge divergent branches" piece seemed like a
> really simple portion of the problem space for which I could get some
> early feedback without having to address the whole problem space all
> at once, and which doesn't seem to have any downside risk.
>
> And even with my attempt to narrow it in scope, and even despite lots
> of early feedback from the Git Virtual Contributor Summit six months
> ago, it's been nearly two months of active discussions including all
> kinds of intrinsic and tangential points about the UI and design. Why
> try to prematurely widen the scope? Can we just focus on merging
> divergent branches for now, and cover the rest later?
>
> > But that argument leads to "and the same something-like-sequencer
> > that is all written in C would need '--rebase-merges' that can pick
> > multi-step merge sequences, and single-step merge does not deserve a
> > plumbing", which is an argument against this topic that is utterly
> > absurd.
> >
> > So why isn't your objection not equally absurd against having a
> > single step cherry-pick or revert primitive as a plumbing?
>
> The objection you are arguing against is not my position. In fact,
> I'm not even objecting to having a single-step cherry-pick, I'm
> objecting to providing it _now_, which I thought would have been clear
> from the portion of my email you snipped ("...I'm happy to add [a
> single step cherry-pick primitive] along with the tool I submit
> later..."). Since that wasn't clear, and since that wasn't my only
> communication failure here, let me attempt to be clearer about my
> objection(s):
>
> 1. I'm really trying to pick off a small piece of the problem space
> and get feedback on it without unnecessarily complicating things with
> unrelated issues. Thus, this series is _only_ about merging branches
> that have diverged, and leaves commit replaying for later.
>
> 2. Two folks have chimed in about the single step cherry-pick, and the
> ONLY reason given for wanting such a thing was to create a
> rebasing/cherry-picking script which was driven by repeatedly invoking
> this low-level primitive command. That's also the only usecase I can
> currently think of for such a primitive. To me, that means providing
> such a low-level command now would be likely to result in the
> rebase-as-a-script mistake of yesteryear. I think we can avoid that
> pitfall by first providing a tool that avoids the
> repeatedly-fork-git-subprocesses model. (Also, providing a low-level
> single-step cherry-pick command also has the added negative of further
> distracting from the focus on merging divergent branches.)
I agree that it's not a good idea to call merge-tree in a loop for
cherry-picking commit sequences.
At the same time, it is weird for such a low-level tool to not allow
specifying merge bases.
Accepting merge bases is the more logical API, that might allow curious
users to figure out how revert/cherry-pick are implemented.
I intuitively prefer the version that accepts merge bases but I don't have
a good use case, so I think it's okay to add that later if we ever find use
for it.
>
> 3. The merge primitive in this series is useful completely independent
> of any rebasing script (it would not be used solely for rebasing
> merges, if it's used for that purpose at all, as evidenced by the fact
> that dscho is already trying to use it for doing new real merges).
>
> 4. Once we have a git-replay tool that can replay a sequence of
> commits, there _might_ not be a need for a single commit replaying
> primitive. If we provided one as you and Johannes Altimanninger were
> asking for, and it turned out to be deemed useless because the later
> tool I provide can do everything it can and more, haven't we just
> wasted time in providing it? And perhaps also wasted future time as
> we then have work to do to deprecate and remove the new command or
> mode? (NOTE: I did *not* say there was "no need" for a single-commit
> replaying primitive -- I said there "might not" be a need.)
If we get a tool that can do multiple cherry-picks, I think there is no
technical reason against having an equivalent tool that can do multiple merges.
In that future, merge-tree might be mostly obsolete.
In general, this is a difficult discussion. It's really hard to judge
this series without a bigger picture of how our future UI will look like.
(Thanks for sharing the replay code BTW, there are some nice features in
there.) Though I agree that integrating this (minimal) series first makes
a ton of sense, because it already supports a valid use case.
I feel like the output format is a bit experimental because it doesn't give
much of the conflict information in a machine-parseable format. Of course
it's good enough for many uses (so I don't think this should block this
topic) but I think we should have a plan on how to change the output format
in future without adding ugly compatibility hacks. Marking merge-tree as
"experimental" (like git-switch/git-restore) comes to mind. That would work
although it's not the most user-friendly way.
(OK I just saw that you are still looking into the output format in
CABPp-BG++YqesTxp+JL3XzwrogfMag1NscoMpCOExmV9z6Py9A@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx )
I wanted to implement some (cherry-picking) scripts using merge-tree but I
don't have enough time or need, so I don't have much feedback on the output
format today. I can imagine that it would be nice to have a clear distinction
between content conflicts and non-content conflicts, but let's worry about
that later..
>
> Also, since you bring up --rebase-merges, there's an additional point
> about it that might be relevant:
>
> 5. While you could implement a naive --rebase-merges in terms of a
> primitive for merging divergent branches (or vice-versa, i.e.
> implement merging divergent branches from a naive --rebase-merges
> implementation), I think replaying merges more intelligently[*] is
> actually a distinct operation from doing a new merge of divergent
> branches and that you probably can't implement one in terms of the
> other. (I'm not certain on this, and definitely don't want to argue
> the finer points on it while my implementation is still half-baked,
> but I really do think they are different things right now.)
>
> [*] https://lore.kernel.org/git/CABPp-BHp+d62dCyAaJfh1cZ8xVpGyb97mZryd02aCOX=Qn=Ltw@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx/
