Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 25 2021, Felipe Contreras wrote: > > > Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Jun 24 2021, Felipe Contreras wrote: > >> > >> > Philip Oakley wrote: > >> >> On 24/06/2021 20:05, Felipe Contreras wrote: > >> >> > Philip Oakley wrote: > >> >> >> Hi Felipe, > >> >> >> On 24/06/2021 15:31, Felipe Contreras wrote: > >> >> >>> Philip Oakley wrote: > >> >> >>>> On 21/06/2021 18:52, Felipe Contreras wrote: > >> >> >>>>> --- a/Documentation/git-pull.txt > >> >> >>>>> +++ b/Documentation/git-pull.txt > >> >> >>>>> @@ -41,16 +41,41 @@ Assume the following history exists and the current branch is > >> >> >>>>> ------------ > >> >> >>>>> A---B---C master on origin > >> >> >>>>> / > >> >> >>>>> - D---E---F---G master > >> >> >>>>> + D---E master > >> >> >>>>> ^ > >> >> >>>>> origin/master in your repository > >> >> >>>>> ------------ > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> Then "`git pull`" will fetch and replay the changes from the remote > >> >> >>>>> `master` branch since it diverged from the local `master` (i.e., `E`) > >> >> >>>>> -until its current commit (`C`) on top of `master` and record the > >> >> >>>>> -result in a new commit along with the names of the two parent commits > >> >> >>>>> -and a log message from the user describing the changes. > >> >> >>>>> +until its current commit (`C`) on top of `master`. > >> >> >>>>> + > >> >> >>>>> +After the remote changes have been synchronized, the local `master` will > >> >> >>>>> +be fast-forwarded to the same commit as the remote one, therefore > >> >> >>>> Perhaps s/be fast-forwarded/have been 'fast-forward'ed/ ? > >> >> >>> No, there's multiple steps: > >> >> >> My key point was to 'quote' the fast-forward term. > >> >> > fast-forward is an English word [1], there's no need to quote it as if > >> >> > it weren't. > >> >> > >> >> You appear to be arguing that your "explain what is a fast-forward" > >> >> (subject line of the patch) doesn't need, within the patch, to explain > >> >> that it is about the term "fast-forward", being used in a Git specific > >> >> way... > >> > > >> > When you are trying to explain the meaning of a word it's generally > >> > better to not use that word in the explanation. For example if you are > >> > trying to explain "recursion", but you use "recursion" in the > >> > explanation, that kinds of defeats the purpose. > >> > > >> > So yes, in the sentence "the local `master` will be fast-forwarded to > >> > the same commit as the remote one", the verb "fast-forwarded" can easily > >> > be replaced with "advanced" and no meaning would be lost. > >> > > >> > The meaning of this "fast-forward" verb is the same as when you > >> > fast-forward a tape, and is not git-specific. > >> > >> Using quotes for a term like 'fast-forward' or some made up word like > >> 'qibbix' doesn't just serve the purpose of clarifying which ones are in > >> the dictionary, but also to establish that the quoted word is jargon > >> within the context of the documentation. > >> > >> If I invent a new and exciting way to cut grass I might say my new > >> machine 'shaves' the grass. The word "shave" is something I assume > >> everyone knows, but I'm making it clear that I'm referring to the > >> exciting mode of operation of my new death machine. > >> > >> So I think it Philip's suggestion makes sense. We're not talking about > >> how to fast-forward a tape, but what happens in git when we use that > >> term. > > > > No. In this particular sentence we are using fast-forward *precisely* in > > the same way as a tape. We haven't even talked about what constitutes a > > "fast-forward" in git jargon. > > > > Substitute the word "fast-forward", and the meaning remains intact: > > > > After the remote changes have been synchronized, the local `master` > > will be advanced to the same commit as the remote one, therefore > > creating a linear history. > > > > As I already explained. > > I think even if you can accurately substitute the jargon it's worth > quoting the jargon, to call out that it's jargon we're using quoted that > place and others. But in this sentence it is not jargon. Do you want me to send another patch using "advance" instead of "fast-forward"? > >> As an aside after however many years of using git this is the first time > >> I made the connection to that usage of the term, I thought it was jargon > >> git invented. That's also something to consider, > > > > I was in your camp, but after thinking deeply about what would be a > > better term than "fast-forward" (advance, forward, boost), I realized > > that in fact "fast-forward" is perfectly fine because it already exists > > in English and conveys precisely the meaning we want: quickly advance to > > a desired position. > > I think whatever term we're introducing will need git-specific > explanation. E.g. because a "tree" is an everyday object our use of it > needs explaining. But in this specific sentence it's not a git-specific explanation. It's using as few git-specific concepts, and as many non-git-specific concepts, to explain a git-specific concept. > >> I've also actually seen an interacted with a tape record and VHS tape in > >> my lifetime, but I suspect many readers of this documentation have not. > > > > But they have pressed fast-forward on their Roku control, or whatever. > > > > Not only is it part of modern technology, but it's even used inside > > films, TV shows, and video games. See TV Tropes for dozens of examples > > where inside the film they fast-forward [1]. > > Unfortunately I haven't been able to non-fast-forward say the Game of > Thrones TV show in such a way that the latest seasons makes any sense, > since no amount of button mashing will merge their version with mine :) But they used the fast-forward gag in Deadpool. Why? Because Hollywood writers know their audience, and they know virtually everyone is aware of what fast-forwarding is. Even the simplest remote controllers have a fast-forward button. > So I think in the context of us using this jargon to describe > git-specific concepts the connection to reality is tenuous at best Why do you think it was named "fast-forward" in the first place? And not say "look-announce"? I still haven't seen an argument as to why Deadpool writers (and many others) would have used this concept if it weren't mainstream. > >> This isn't something for your patch, but I wonder more generally if we > >> shouldn't consider moving away from the term entirely, and just say a > >> branch was one of: > >> > >> * advanced (or some other such term, forwarded?) > >> * rebased > >> * merged > >> > >> The existence (and it being the default) of "merge --ff" makes that > >> somewhat difficult, but in those cases we could and probably should just > >> also say "advanced" (or whatever), since that's what happened, ditto a > >> noop rebase. > > > > I already thought about it and I don't think so. The word "advanced" > > doesn't hint where, how much, or how quickly, could very well be just > > one commit forward. > > Hrm, we use fast-forward for N commits advanced, including N=1, or > perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. For example in the context of a film, "advance" could easily mean move one second ahead, or even unpause. Fast-forward on the other hand can't be used that way, it implies moving quickly many seconds. > > This is one of those rare occasions where I think the git project chose > > the perfect word. > > Perhaps, it's not like I've got much in the way of a holistic world view > with which to replace it. > > I do think "perfect" would do a few things it doesn't though, imagine > reading about it for the first time and not making the connection to > tapes. Is it an optimization? Is there a slow-forward? What if upstream > rewound there branch and I merge, is that a merge-backwards? > > It's not immediately obvious how rebase/merge/fast-forward relate or > if/when (e.g. merge sometimes being a merge-ff) they're incompatible > concepts. I don't think there's any word in the English language that would magically place the fully-formed concept of the git's fast-forward in the reader's mind. That applies for all concepts though. A git "branch" needs to be explained, just knowing what a branch is in English isn't enough, and if nobody has used a SCM, the same for a "commit". In psychology of learning there's a concept called chunking [1]. In order to understand what the word "economy" means, you need to learn many other concepts before, including the concept of "market", and for that you need many others, including "money", and so on. Very complex concepts are constituted by multiple big sub-chunks. To explain the git-specific concept of a fast-forward, it's in our best interest to reuse chunks that are already in the zeitgeist of the culture, including the non-git-specific concept of fast-forwarding. This patch is not simply saying a "fast-forward" is a fast-forward. It's explaining the git-specific fast-forward by capitalizing from the general knowledge fast-forward, which is so mainstream it's even used in Hollywood. Cheers. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunking_(psychology) -- Felipe Contreras
