On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Jeff King <peff@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 01, 2016 at 10:07:10AM -0700, Stefan Beller wrote: > >> > So you'd probably want some client tool to help the user figure out what >> > to put in the PR, and of course that already exists, because GitHub has >> > an HTTP API that it can talk to. Shoe-horning it into Git doesn't buy >> > much. >> >> Let's say the example was bad. the reality is that Dennis and I implemented >> a needed feature independently of each other and you have the >> out-of-the-box-Github-does-HTTP-too solution. So I think we'd want >> *something* in Git to have information in the receiving hooks available? > > Sure, _if_ it's information that the receiving hooks want to have. > > I guess what I'm questioning is exactly what receiving hooks do need to > have. Things like "the user said --force" seem obviously related to the > push. Things like auto-creating a PR seem less about the push itself, > and more about something you can do with the result of the push. > > So a litmus test for me would be something like: > > Can you get the same effect with: > > git push $remote my-branch && > curl https://$remote/api/do-the-thing?q=my-branch > > as you would with: > > git push --push-data=do-the-thing $remote mybranch People are happy when they can use one tool instead of two, e.g. "Deploy with Git" is a thing[1] and maybe they want to add a switch "once pushed skip the tests, I know they are broken". [1] https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/git > > If so, then it seems like inserting the data through the git connection > is not really adding functionality, but it _is_ adding complexity to > git (that other tools are already handling with much more flexibility). > > We have a similar rule of thumb for hooks; we don't add a hook if > there's no reason you couldn't just run the hook content immediately > before or after the command. > >> It seems to me there are many other Git-wrappers, such as the repo tool >> or git-review[2], and most of them start with the premise: "Git doesn't support >> X yet, so while they take their time to figure out how to do it >> properly upstream, >> we'll just use this hacky script" and then eventually you end up with an xml >> parsing beast with thousands lines of python code (The story of the repo >> tool and submodules). > > But it's exactly this complexity that makes me worried about moving > things into git. This patch addresses only the transport problem. If > your problem is that something like a review system built on git > involves lot of complicated data, now you have two problems: you still > have the complicated data, and now you have to shoe-horn it into Git's > ad-hoc protocol. > > I'm also not convinced that it alleviates the need for the tool to have > a separate API. Imagine you can send this data while pushing now. How do > you edit it later? How do you retrieve it programmatically? Etc. > >> > I think Gerrit is funny in this regard because it >> > eschews branches entirely. E.g., in a GitHub PR, you push to branch >> > "foo", and then you open a PR using "foo" as the source. >> >> Once upon a time you could also open a pull request using the sha1? >> (I did that once and then was asked to do some fixes before pulling and >> I had to abandon and reopen a proper branch PR) >> >> > But with >> > Gerrit, you push to the magic refs/for/master, and you have no real way >> > to cross-reference that submission later. >> >> What do you mean by cross reference? > > I just meant that in my GitHub example, the branch name you chose > ("foo") becomes the key with which you can correlate the two actions: > pushing the data via Git, and later opening a PR (via the web page, or > the API, or whatever). > > With Gerrit, how do you refer to the commits you just pushed, when > making a separate action? My impression is that Gerrit assigns > change-ids centrally when you push to refs/for/master; actually you install a commit hook to do it decentralized. > how do you figure > out after the push what the change-id is of the thing you just pushed? > I can guess maybe it sends something to stderr that the user then reads, > but that is purely a guess. I've never really used Gerrit. I assigns the "legacy" sequential numbers like so: $ git push origin HEAD:refs/for/master Counting objects: 18, done. Delta compression using up to 12 threads. Compressing objects: 100% (18/18), done. Writing objects: 100% (18/18), 4.15 KiB | 0 bytes/s, done. Total 18 (delta 13), reused 0 (delta 0) remote: Resolving deltas: 100% (13/13) remote: Processing changes: new: 3, updated: 2, done remote: (W) ba18b08: too many commit message lines longer than 70 characters; manually wrap lines remote: remote: New Changes: remote: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/79620 project: introduce hasCommit method remote: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/79621 project: GetSubmodules uses recursive switch for ls-tree remote: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/79622 sync: add a quick flag to ignore up to date projects remote: remote: remote: Updated Changes: remote: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/79195 manifest_xml: move path parsing before revision parsing remote: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/79200 Add a superproject metarepository for atomic syncs remote: To https://gerrit.googlesource.com/git-repo * [new branch] HEAD -> refs/for/master > > You're right that one could use sha1s for this purpose. > >> Gerrits flaws are off topic to this series though (maybe?) > > I'm far from qualified to critique Gerrit. I was mostly just observing > that your view of the problem space (and thus the solution) is colored > by Gerrit's way of doing things. That doesn't make it a wrong solution, > but it's worth seeing whether other systems would get the same benefit > (just because part of the "is it worth it" equation is how widely used > the feature could be). > >> > Whereas in Dennis's patches, it was about specific information directly >> > related to the act of pushing. >> >> But does it cover all the informations related to pushing? like >> >> "I am a bot, down-prioritize me, please" >> "I am a bot, therefore I do not care about the internal replication >> on the server" >> >> The last one is interesting as it is very specific to our servers. So you could >> argue we'd want to roll our own fork of Git that also covers such a hook option, >> but I think it is easier for both the Git community as well as us here to allow >> Git transmit free form text and the server can decide how to act upon it? > > No, I don't think it covers all information. I like the idea of being > able to pass free-form key/value pairs to hooks, because by definition > we don't know what the hooks are doing, or what the user might want to > communicate to them. > >> I might have missed the point of this email completely as I seem to >> try to defend the >> patch series (and Gerrit a bit). So do you think the functionality of >> this series is overkill >> and we'd rather go with Dennis series? > > Oh, I'm supposed to have a point to my emails? :) I am used to read high quality emails from you and asked myself what I can learn by reading this email. "Trying to figure out your point", nothing more. > > I was mostly just musing. I do see the general idea as a useful thing; > there really is data that is related to the push itself, and not other > actions you may want to perform on the push. > > I'm not necessarily sure that we need a complicated data model (like > multiple values of the same key), or the ability to handle arbitrarily > large binary data. Those don't necessarily complicate the wire protocol > (I like the idea of adding a new phase of key/values, followed by a > flush), So you suggest that we only allow key=value pairs and not "key" only? I am not sure if that makes it easier, though (what part is easier?) compared to completely free form. > but they do complicate the server implementation (how do we > communicate them to the hooks? Should there be limits for safety and DoS > protection on the server?) Oh good point! How do you handle DoS protection for pushing large blobs, or weird history (that may blow up the before-behind implementation as referenced in the "topological index field for commit objects" thread) Shouldn't that be server specific as well? Mind that I proposed a "receive.advertisePushOptions" config option. Maybe that can be fine tuned in a later patch "receive.PushOptionSizeLimit", "receive.maxPushOptions" or such? > >> Gits spirit (Oh no, not this discussion!) is to allow a broad range of >> uses and work flows. It doesn't hinder you from shooting into your >> feet if that's what you're into, and that is what this series does >> precisely. > > I think Git's spirit is also to fit as a tool into the greater > ecosystem, and not duplicate functionality that is done elsewhere. So > for example there is no authentication in the git:// protocol; that job > is done by ssh. or https and you have a cookie for that. Talking about authentication, any tool that we additionally have "to just trigger this one thing remotely" would need to learn about proper auth, too. so it will not be just a small helper script, but blows up into a large thing. I think we could avoid that duplicated effort, too. > > -Peff -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe git" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html