hey crew, this whole pdf/cmyk discussion has been a nice exercise for me in getting to "know the activity" as Don Norman calls it. this is what I digest from all that has been said here: rule #1: the topic we are talking all the time about here is not cmyk, tiff or pdf. the topic we are talking about is mastering for the printing press everything evolves around that. 2) even though the printing press can be digital, plates is what it is all about. cmyk is the bleeding obvious way to set up those plates, but anything can happen (spot, CMKYGO). 3) control over what is on each plate, and then how they combine is the name of the game. I do not underestimate how much adjustment is needed for each plate (or multiple plates), basically the whole monochrome collection of image operations. 4) tiff or pdf? it is just a transport method. it is a strategic choice what to do first/better/at all. 5) there is the creative work to make the image and there is the mastering for the printing press. in general these two jobs randomly alternate during the life cycle of the image file. one moment there is creative development, the next there is work on the plates, then back to the creative part, etc. 6) if an image is in cmyk then we are stuffed when it comes to creative work. lots of operations/plugins will stop working or only via (implicit) cmyk->(other color model)->cmyk conversions, which are a no-no. 7) when opening a file in cmyk format, it has obviously been mastered for a printing press. either this mastering needs corrections, or this image is an 'found image' that goes into another creative work. the latter is better done in rgb (see 6). 8) trapping is an example of explicit printing press support. 9) it is necessary to set the same point on all plates to an exact ink value (think of setting a hard cmyk value for a block of text or selection of pixels). after writing the above I have reread for the third time all the emails in the thread. AFAIK all the input in the thread is captured in the above observations. my conclusions from this: 1) all creative work in GIMP is in rgb. 2) when it is one of those times (plural) to work on the printing press mastering of this file, then pull the "press projection" over the image window. now you can see the plates (similar to layers) and work on each or combinations. 3) the set-up of the press projection plates is of course the separation set-up (with printing press profile) and can be freely defined from the composite or individual layers of the image file (channel mixing on steroids). standard cmyk type of separations will be the bleeding obvious defaults to choose from. CMKYGO can easily be also a default. 4) flip the press projection up again and continue to work on the creative part. flip the press projection down again and the plates are updated from the image changes. with previous plate modifications applied on top. 5) the press projection set-up and all modifications made to the plates on the press projection are also saved in the GIMP file. 5) when it is time to send the printing press master then from the press projection it can be exported to a few suitable formats (tiff, pdf, ...). 6) importing a cmyk file? there should be a choice to either shove this straight into a press projection to do some mastering corrections, or to convert to rgb to be part of a new work of art. whew, --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture _______________________________________________ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer