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Today's Topics:
1. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill)
2. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Louis Desjardins)
3. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill)
4. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Louis Desjardins)
5. Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable Everywhere
(Martin Nordholts)
6. Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable Everywhere (Graeme Gill)
7. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Martin Nordholts)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:45:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
To: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjardins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
gespertino@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.1.00.0903252325460.7133@localhost>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote:
>
> To this point I don?t believe it?s that important to start figuring out
> whether the case is as good an example as it possibly can. I guess we
> are not at all trying to make the trial of the use of CMYK in the
> printing industry! (Now, that would be a total waste of time!) For those
> interested I bet a full glass of beer ? available at LGM! ? that they
> can find without too much efforts plenty of explanations about CMYK use
> in the printing industry on the web. Even non-offset printing go by CMYK
> and inkjet printing involves CMYK plus Light Cyan, Light Mangenta and/or
> Vivid Magenta and some Black variations. Somehow, somewhere in the
> process these printers need to convert the data so the printer can use
> one of the CMYK inks that?s in the machine, be it toner or printing ink.
> There is no way to ignore this reality.
I am informed that some CcMmYK printers accept only RGB data. In
such cases, it would be better not to convert to CMYK, since it
will only have to be converted back to RGB before it goes to the
device.
--
| Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, |
| this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA |
| <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> |
--
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:59:02 -0400
From: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjardins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
To: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
gespertino@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <49CAFD86.3040308@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Andrew A. Gill a ?crit :
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote:
>>
>> To this point I don?t believe it?s that important to start figuring out
>> whether the case is as good an example as it possibly can. I guess we
>> are not at all trying to make the trial of the use of CMYK in the
>> printing industry! (Now, that would be a total waste of time!) For those
>> interested I bet a full glass of beer ? available at LGM! ? that they
>> can find without too much efforts plenty of explanations about CMYK use
>> in the printing industry on the web. Even non-offset printing go by CMYK
>> and inkjet printing involves CMYK plus Light Cyan, Light Mangenta and/or
>> Vivid Magenta and some Black variations. Somehow, somewhere in the
>> process these printers need to convert the data so the printer can use
>> one of the CMYK inks that?s in the machine, be it toner or printing ink.
>> There is no way to ignore this reality.
>
> I am informed that some CcMmYK printers accept only RGB data. In such
> cases, it would be better not to convert to CMYK, since it will only
> have to be converted back to RGB before it goes to the device.
This mostly depends on the RIP that is attached to the printer but
really, this doesn?t prove the point of the need of CMYK editing ability
to be wrong, does it?
Louis
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:10:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
To: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjardins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.1.00.0903260008480.7133@localhost>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote:
>
> This mostly depends on the RIP that is attached to the printer but really,
> this doesn?t prove the point of the need of CMYK editing ability to be wrong,
> does it?
On the contrary.
Just trying to give people all the facts. I find it helps to
avoid being accused of partisanship.
--
| Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, |
| this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA |
| <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> |
--
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:16:06 -0400
From: Louis Desjardins <louis_desjardins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
To: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <49CB0186.10909@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Andrew A. Gill a ?crit :
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Louis Desjardins wrote:
>>
>> This mostly depends on the RIP that is attached to the printer but
>> really, this doesn?t prove the point of the need of CMYK editing
>> ability to be wrong, does it?
>
> On the contrary.
>
> Just trying to give people all the facts. I find it helps to avoid
> being accused of partisanship.
:-)
Ok!
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:15:45 +0100
From: Martin Nordholts <enselic@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable
Everywhere
To: drizzt <gimp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <49CB1D91.1000908@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
drizzt wrote:
> Hi all !
>
>
> This is a long post, replying to many previous posts, and adding some parts
> from IRC chats, and some even from discussions with Gimp developers.
Hi,
Long it was, for sure. Sorry but if you don't want the GIMP UI to evolve
and change, don't upgrade to new versions.
Basic rules of interaction design applies to both open source and
commercial projects. Now, open source and commercial projects can have
completely different goals, and often have, but basic rules of
interaction design still applies. With all due respect it to me sounds
like you have not looked into interaction design at all and is just
ranting based on your highly personal preferences. Looking into the
world of interaction design will give you valuable insights. I recommend
you to read the book "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan
Cooper. It is not a handbook on how to design interactive systems, but
more of an eye-opener of what's wrong with todays products and processes
as far as interaction design goes. In that book he addresses a lot of
the points you are making.
BR,
Martin
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 17:49:45 +1100
From: Graeme Gill <graeme2@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable
Everywhere
To: gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <49CB2589.2080609@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Martin Nordholts wrote:
> world of interaction design will give you valuable insights. I recommend
> you to read the book "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum" by Alan
> Cooper. It is not a handbook on how to design interactive systems, but
I wouldn't bother. Whatever insights are contained in this book
are completely clouded by the outright mistakes and predudice
it containts. It is little more than a rant in itself.
Graeme Gill.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:05:03 +0100
From: Martin Nordholts <enselic@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: GIMP PDF export plugin
To: "Andrew A. Gill" <superluser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: gimp-developer <gimp-developer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
graeme@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <49CB291F.1090902@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Andrew A. Gill wrote:
> [from here out, `you' refers to core GIMP developers]
>
> We want you to succeed, and all you need to do to succeed is to
> address some of the issues that users need. If you're telling us
> that GIMP has no intention of ever providing those things, we'll
> find another product. Maybe Krita when it becomes vaguely
> stable, or maybe a fork.
>
With all the excellent input from people in the printing industry,
including you, I think it is as clear as it can be. GIMP needs to
support editing in the CMYK color space. Support for editing only in the
RGB color space will simply not be enough. The details on _how_ to
support this is still an open question, but that we _need_ to is to me
just unquestionable.
> Here's a thought: I can code. I'm sure others on this list can,
> too. Why don't you tell us what you would require for a CMYK
> mode to be incorporated into the trunk of GIMP. We can all read
> the API, but you can tell us what coding standards we need, what
> toes we can't step on and why other attempts to add similar
> functionality (like Cinepaint nee FilmGimp) foundered, and what
> we can do to avoid making those same mistakes.
>
> If you tell us what we need to do, we can do it. That's the
> point of Open Source!
>
> If you don't, people are going to get sick of the excuses and
> simply move on to develop this functionality somewhere else.
>
> >From the outside, GIMP is seen as a shining example of what open
> source is capable of. Inside the OSS movement, it's seen much
> like the XFree86 guys--constantly bickering about the same
> issues. I'm sure that you'd have no trouble getting developers
> to work on a flagship product if they were convinced that it
> would end some of the internal conflicts in OSS.
>
I must say I find this a bit arrogant. Supporting someone that is
inexperienced with hacking on the GIMP core to implement CMYK, which
arguably is the toughest task one can currently take on as far as GIMP
hacking goes, would be both very boring and very time consuming. That is
not something I want to spend my spare time on. If you want to help
implement better support for CMYK you should start working on and
looking into the GIMP code. After working on the code for a while you
will get your own ideas on how to implement CMYK in the best way.
I've been contributing code to GIMP for quite a while now, and I don't
know yet know exactly how to implement support for CMYK editing in the
best way. All I know is that GEGL will be a much better base for this
than the legacy code. So if you want to help getting CMYK into GIMP,
helping with the integration of GEGL will be a good start.
Best regards,
Martin
------------------------------
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