while i was waiting to receive my password from mailman so i can leave this ship of fools, i cvs checkedout gimp-gap from gnomecvs. apparently, wofgang uses 1.4 and that is good enough for me. can someone email me with how to tell my autoconf.sh where GIMP-1.4 is? i will not have time to check this list again until my password shows up. thanks for all the fish. carol -- Saat omenoitani.