Peter Jones wrote:
On Sun, 2006-01-22 at 09:13 +0800, John Summerfied wrote:
Jesse Keating wrote:
So while the bug(s) may seem obvious to you, unless your exact hardware
is sitting in my cube it isn't going to seem very obvious to me. I am a
bit hurt at the implication that we don't even bother to test our
release before we send it out the door.
You shouldn't be. Have you forgotten the users' perspective so soon? If
one puts as much effort into installing it as the OP appears to, then
the conclusion that there's been unsufficient testing is a reasonable
one for a user to make.
I've probably done (well, at least started) 300 installs so far this
Um, Peter, I was addressing my remarks to Jesse.
I worked on IBM's PL/1 compiler for a time, and my major task was
testing the compile against a supply of around 11,000 testcases, some of
which dated back to bugs reported in the early 70s - 20 years before. I
know a little about testing.
month, if not more. Like it or not, the way humans work largely
involves acclimating ourselves to patterns. So for some bugs, which I'm
particularly *searching* for, I'm going to find them. But the sheer
number of installs I do is going to render me blind to many things. The
same holds true for many developers.
I could do 1000 installs in a month, and it wouldn't make things
*better*. This is why we have test releases -- so people who don't do
10+ installs per day will see it and report what *they* see, rather than
what those of us who are unquestionably acclimated to both the code and
the behavior see.
OTOH I have reported a memory leak in Mozilla (to Mozilla.org I think,
but it could have been Debian). There is something about the way I use
Mozilla that causes it to consume all of available memory and to not let
it go until it ends. Others have reported the same kind of probkem, and
on a variety of platforms including Windoes (no, it wouldn't have been
Debian).
The bug was closed because the developers couldn't recreate the problem,
and since I cannot run Mozilla without seeing the problem I cannot avoid
the problem any more than they could create it.
I don't know whether the problem's fixed now; I'm running with a Gb of
RAM and my usage patterns may have changed.
The point is not how much testing you're doing; more important is what
you're testing, and it seems likely that you are not testing what the OP
is trying to do.
If he and you can get together over a VNC session, then maybe he can
show you.
Hinting that BZ is a good idea is fine, but I for one find it a royal
pain to use, and nobody's found time to write an email (or similar)
interface that Mike Harris agreed was a fine idea before he joined RH.
Long ago I worked in support, when you could email in a support query
*with* authentication to prove you were a paying customer. That's a
significantly higher of a barrier to entry than the panacea which you're
suggesting. I really wish you could still email support questions and
hope to get a reasonably answer. I totally disagree with the idea that
this feature is even anything remotely like a good idea in a bug
reporting system. All that it will accomplish is more reports. Not
more legitimate bugs actually being reported.
More important is asking for the specifics of what went wrong, and
asking in _this_ forum is way more likely to get related input from
others than you could hope to get with bugzilla.
Have we forgotten the start of this thread? The original post included
this text:
Probably 8 out of 10 times the installer died while I was picking
packages to install. Each time it would pop up a message box saying
something to the effect 'this is a bug' and describing how to report
it.
Evidently he's doing something unlike what you're testing, Peter.
Not exactly specifics, and the instructions (which clearly were
presented) have not been followed. Nor have details emerged in response
to our queries for descriptions of the particular configuration in
question.
I've not seen his problem; I've not yet tried to install t2, but I'm
sure I saw something in its documentation telling testers to report
problems here. That's what he did.
--
Cheers
John
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