Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
On Feb 8, 2008 1:32 PM, Máirín Duffy <duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
For some historical background, the fpo site was such a link farm (or
landing page, either one is bad I think) with six links on it. It didn't
work well and the domain was eventually changed to point directly to the
wiki. See:
http://web.archive.org/web/20050419015224/http://www.fedoraproject.org/
http://web.archive.org/web/20050826014104/http://fedoraproject.org/
Yep, those are ugly. That's not what I suggested, but I may not be
communicating my point very well.
Oh I didn't mean to say you were, sorry about that. I meant to show them
as an example of what I think people are thinking when you're talking
about a central point of contact. That is what I initially thought of
anyway until I digged into the ubuntu example you showed.
There is nothing that says our main page has to be plain text links.
We can link to other sections of the project though from the main page
and make it look good. We can cover the what is Fedora on the main
page. We can use pleasant graphics somewhere about the page to get
you deeper in to the subject matter you seek.
+1 But, the choice here is which things are deeper to get to, which
things are more shallow to get to? You can't have everything shallow, or
you will definitely have a 'link farm.' (The examples from archive.org
are the opposite, everything deep)
We're not suggesting having a separate domain for every single
subsection of the site. I would suggest we have two, very similar to the
Firefox website's model:
- getfedora.org (or usefedora.org, or whatever)
- fedoraproject.org -
A third site I think we could have is what J5 is working on - my fedora
- along the veins of fedoraproject.org,
I only disagree in splitting these off into different domain names.
Dedicated sections for the user community, developers and the
myfedora.fp.o all make sense. It makes sure the information for each
group of people is relatively contained in one area. Those sections
could be getfedora.fp.o or dev.fp.o or whatever - but it helps show
some form of hierarchy. This is just my opinion of course.
Sure, and the opinion of a few others is that the 'project' in the
fedoraproject.org domain makes it sound more community/developer
oriented and that users and newbies might prefer something more friendly
sounding,
It would be nice if we could have fedora.org and organize everything
from there but we can't.
ubuntu has:
ubuntuforums.org
fridge.ubuntu.com
shop.canonical.com
wiki.ubuntu.com
a separate domain for almost every 'spin' - kubuntu.org, edubuntu.org, etc.
I liked the overall way the Ubuntu page got you to different places
and that is what I was trying to show. I have absolutely zero
artistic talent, so I couldn't sketch or make a mockup and had to rely
on a page I think does its job reasonably well. :)
I don't see a problem with sub-domains as it still helps show we all
fall under one branch. So translating the above URLs into an Fedora
hierarchy it would be:
forums.fp.o
news.fp.o
store.fp.o
wiki.fp.o
spins.fp.o
That to me shows some organization behind the group. I am sure others
will disagree, everyone does have a different way of looking at
things.
I definitely think it's far more useful to draw up mockups and plans and
build discussion around them instead of arguing about ideas that we
might not even be interpreting the same way. ;-) I think we agree on a
lot of levels, hopefully I'll have some time to mock some of this up to
show concretely what I am thinking and we can critque those for a more
effective discussion.
What ubuntu is doing is that ubuntu.com is geared towards users and
non-contributors (and customers) and it links out towards developer and
contributor resources. I am a developer i have to dig pretty deep on
their site to get to stuff that interests me.
So, we fix that. Fedora is tends to be a developer distro, we make
sure that first click off the main page takes you deep into the heart
of developer land and minimize the number of clicks - because that is
important to us. Even better we call that first link dev.fp.o - so
now the developer either remembers that or bookmarks straight into the
section they really care about.
+1
Meanwhile, for the users we keep a little more user centric content on
the main page. Because unlike the developers they are probably
landing on our page in search of the questions you want to answer for
them.
Exactly.
I think you are slightly exaggerating what we are suggesting here.
No more so than calling my ideas nothing more than a link farm.
I never said your ideas were nothing more than a link farm. I think the
point was that a link farm is something we want to avoid and a possible
interpretation of what you were suggesting but from your further
explanation and examples it's clear thats not what you meant.
I think your ideas are great for developing more specific sections of
the site. A user specific area with the scary developer content not
in it would be useful for new users to Fedora or users trying to
choose a distro. And vice versa, getting developers into an area that
is more suited for them and not 'learning about Fedora'. I only
disagree on adding yet more domain names to the mix to accomplish
that.
We are suggesting adding ONE more domain name. No more than that. It was
never ever suggested that we would have a seperate domain name for each
site section as I pointed out before.
~m
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