HTML log found here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080130 11:03 < themayor> is this taking place or what? 11:03 < c_hoke> alright, so it's about time to get going here 11:03 -!- rut1 [n=rsuehle@nat/redhat/x-d7d56d95030bdb55] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:03 < c_hoke> so, just to give everyone a bit of some background 11:03 -!- rut1 is now known as rsuehle 11:03 < c_hoke> in case you weren't on email lsit 11:03 < mdomsch> smooge, feel free to ask on mirror-list for more EPEL mirors 11:03 < c_hoke> we had a meeting in raleigh a few weeks ago about how to organize our efforts on marketing fedora 11:04 < c_hoke> we didn't get very far before deciding to just kick the whole thing out to the community 11:04 < c_hoke> and here we are 11:04 < smooge> mdomsch, thanks will do so 11:04 -!- rharrison [n=rharriso@nat/cisco/x-fbd86a11f39f4355] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"] 11:04 < smooge> and will let c_hoke have his channel 11:04 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Marketing SIG -- Introduction, agenda 11:04 -!- jopp [n=jopp@nat/redhat/x-92ef216e8cc1cada] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:04 < c_hoke> we have a few ideas and some people whoa re willing to help from our (Red Hat) team 11:05 < c_hoke> but we wanna see what everyone thinks, get an agenda set and kick some ass. 11:05 < quaid> can we get a quick roll call on who is here for this meeting? e.g.: 11:05 * quaid is here 11:05 < c_hoke> yeah who all is here? 11:05 * mthompson is here 11:05 < rsuehle> Ruth 11:05 * Syn-Drome is here 11:05 * spevack 11:05 * iWolf 11:05 * red_alert 11:06 < striker57> striker57 (Chris Negus) is here 11:06 * joadams (john adams, red hat brand manager) is here 11:06 * tfridric is here 11:06 < rmaggior> Ron 11:06 -!- bascha [n=bharris@nat/redhat/x-82d0cdc87293e816] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:06 < c_hoke> elaine? 11:06 < quaid> <== Karsten Wade for those who don't know my nick :) 11:06 < rsuehle> elaine is afk 11:06 < Syn-Drome> ive read your emails :) 11:07 < c_hoke> hey bascha, we're just doing roll-call 11:07 < jopp> jopp 11:07 < rsuehle> bascha now afk too :D 11:08 * quaid puts up current agenda in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings#Next_Meeting 11:08 < c_hoke> so I guess the first order of business for us is to definitely say we're a SIG 11:09 < c_hoke> and we'll get ourselves listed 11:09 < quaid> looks like enough people to be a SIG to me 11:09 < quaid> a special interest group is the Fedora way of "just doing stuff without too much bureacracy" 11:09 < quaid> if we get big and active enough, we need to add bureaucracy for survivability 11:10 < c_hoke> and so everyone knows, and so I can put him on the spot, joadams is our branding expert and we're happy to have him in here 11:10 * bascha is back. :) 11:10 < c_hoke> he can give us some insight to this whole thing 11:10 < quaid> so .. SIG +1 or -1? 11:10 < c_hoke> +1 11:10 < bascha> +1 11:10 < red_alert> +1 11:10 < joadams> +1 11:10 < striker57> +1 11:10 < spevack> +1 11:10 < Syn-Drome> +1 11:10 < iWolf> +1 11:11 < c_hoke> quaid: I may have you lead us through your agenda that yyou' 11:11 < c_hoke> ve alid out so far and I'll keep track of everyone 11:11 -!- al7qs [n=Doug@xxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:11 < quaid> c_hoke: sure, good call 11:11 * quaid is +1 to a SIG as well 11:11 < quaid> if anyone wants to add us to the wiki/SIGs whilst we talk, go ahead ... 11:12 < quaid> so, agenda .. I moved brand to the bottom because that is more of an open ended discussion 11:12 < bascha> (also just a note--seems that /msg isn't working? or is that just us?) 11:12 < quaid> bascha: should work ... 11:12 < bascha> quaid: isn't working for me, rsuehle, or joadams 11:12 < iWolf> I think you need a registered nick? 11:12 < bascha> also jopp 11:12 < rsuehle> oooh iwolf is right 11:12 < bascha> tks, nvm 11:12 < bascha> :P 11:13 < quaid> yes, nick registration is suggested ... 11:13 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate#head-e606f00c0fdeb3462b9278f364f5645317ea30b7 11:13 < quaid> useful links are there 11:13 < quaid> we should be able to have an in-channel discussion, though 11:14 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Marketing SIG -- What is the state of Fedora marketing needs? 11:14 < quaid> fwiw, I think we have that somewhat answered with Messaging GUide and Marketing Plan, but what do those mean and why do we need them? 11:14 -!- buggbot [n=supybot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Broken pipe] 11:14 -!- bzbot [n=supybot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:16 * quaid was hoping we might get a blank/template of a marketing plan for the list to look at ... 11:16 < joadams> i've looked up a couple of different examples and sent them over to c_hoke 11:16 < joadams> good mix of shorter and longer styles 11:16 < c_hoke> I have those and they're in PDF format 11:16 < c_hoke> what's the best way for folks to see them? 11:16 < joadams> we can customize as needed, of course ... just to give an idea 11:17 < mthompson> wiki? 11:17 < c_hoke> joadams: do you have a web page we can link to? 11:17 < joadams> no, i saved them all locally as separate docs ... 11:17 < mthompson> do we have a fedora marketing team wiki? (just curious) 11:18 < joadams> i can try to post to the wiki (if there is an appropriate page, and if someone helps me :) 11:18 < c_hoke> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings#Next_Meeting 11:18 < c_hoke> I'm assuming we'll use that page for all purposes 11:19 -!- rharrison [n=rharriso@nat/cisco/x-fbd86a11f39f4355] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:19 < quaid> mthompson: fp.org/wiki/Marketing 11:19 < bascha> i can help you with the posting, joadams 11:19 < Syn-Drome> i just want to add something here 11:19 < quaid> alt is to use a fedorapeople.org account if you have problems with the attachments 11:19 < quaid> Syn-Drome: go ahead 11:19 < Syn-Drome> i have a redundant website that i'd be happy to offer up for testing space 11:20 < Syn-Drome> :) 11:20 < quaid> maybe we can take the outline from the PDFs and put that into the wiki 11:21 < joadams> yeah, most follow the same basic format ... level of detail is different 11:21 < c_hoke> I put up a simple one page marketing plan and sent it to the list 11:21 * quaid looks 11:21 < c_hoke> hopefully someone can grab it quickly and throw it up there for now 11:21 < c_hoke> it's VERY basic 11:22 < joadams> the one-pager is by far the most basic 11:22 < c_hoke> but it's the basics 11:22 < c_hoke> who is our audience, what are our strengths 11:22 < c_hoke> where do we want to be seen 11:22 < c_hoke> how do we want to be seen, etc etc 11:22 < c_hoke> what are our weaknesses 11:22 < joadams> the others put more meat on the bones 11:23 < joadams> e.g. articulated mission statement, SWOT analysis, detailed competitive analysis, marketing strategies and budgets ... 11:23 * c_hoke sends out the rest of the pdfs 11:24 < joadams> implementation schedule(s) ... 11:24 < c_hoke> does anyone know right off the top of their head when F9 goes out? 11:24 < quaid> ok, the meatier ones sound better to me 11:24 < Syn-Drome> aril 11:24 < quaid> May Day 11:24 < Syn-Drome> *april 11:24 < spevack> something like april 29th 11:24 < bascha> and spevack for the win... 11:24 < c_hoke> cause ideally we wanna be able to back that as much as possible IMHO 11:24 < quaid> that was where Leigh's March deadline idea came froom 11:25 < spevack> Fedora is released on the Tuesday closest to May Day and the Tuesday closest to Halloween each year 11:25 < Syn-Drome> :D 11:25 < c_hoke> word up spevack 11:25 < red_alert> when is may day? oO 11:26 < rsuehle> may 1 11:26 < red_alert> i c :D 11:26 < c_hoke> Messaging Guide, for those who wanna see what's goin on so far http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/MarketingMessagingGuide 11:26 < quaid> what is the relationship of a Guide to a Plan? 11:26 < c_hoke> that's ideas from FUDCon 11:26 < c_hoke> joadams? 11:27 < quaid> is one a subset of the other? are they parallel dependencies? 11:27 -!- bzbot [n=supybot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Dead socket] 11:27 -!- buggbot [n=supybot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:27 < c_hoke> I'd think the plan is a subset of a guide 11:27 < c_hoke> the plan gets more meat and specificity 11:28 < joadams> i'd need to take a look at the messaging guide to answer better. but generally, a plan will be forward-looking, and will bridge the strategic with the tactical. 11:28 < quaid> do those two things include everything that is needed to move ahead with Fedora marketing? 11:29 < joadams> there seems to be an absence of market data 11:29 < c_hoke> yeah that's the bones that we have so far 11:29 < c_hoke> it's not complete by any means 11:29 < quaid> tactical examples == generating press around a release, attracting more contributors, etc. ? 11:29 < c_hoke> we need to lay it out 11:30 < quaid> strategic == why we do what we do, how we do it over the long haul, etc.? 11:30 < c_hoke> and understand how a guide relates to what we do 11:30 < joadams> quaid: exactly. what are the specific marketing vehicles and when do we want to engage them. 11:30 < joadams> strategic would be, what are our major messages? how do we want to be seen? what will our marketing mix look like to communicate those messages? 11:31 < c_hoke> do we want to spend the rest of this meeting discussing who and what Fedora is 11:31 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:31 < c_hoke> and get that set? 11:31 < c_hoke> and decide what our message should be 11:31 < striker57> Yes, and who we want to market to. 11:32 < c_hoke> yes 11:32 < joadams> first: if we were to put a skeleton marketing plan out there, is there a "best practice" way for the community to collaboratively edit / author the document? 11:32 < Syn-Drome> first time linux users. 11:32 -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:32 < joadams> (maybe not the entire community, but the SIG?) 11:33 < quaid> as for discussions ... 11:33 < c_hoke> quaid: ideas on what joadams said/ 11:33 < c_hoke> ? 11:33 < quaid> we can, but generally that is what a discussion list (f-marketing-l) is for 11:33 -!- buggbot [n=supybot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Dead socket] 11:33 -!- bzbot [n=supybot@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:33 < quaid> if we want to get stuff done, we'll need to engage on list all the time and use these meetings for updates and decision stuff 11:34 < joadams> got it. one way to tackle it might be to split the plan up into manageable chunks and have a SIG member "champion" its completion. 11:34 < quaid> for example, we can actually volunteer as individuals for the various parts of the Guide and Plan 11:34 < joadams> great minds think alike 11:34 < quaid> then go about the "what goes in there" discussion on list 11:34 < quaid> +1 11:34 < Syn-Drome> +1 11:34 < c_hoke> +1 11:34 < striker57> +1 11:34 < iWolf> +1 11:35 < red_alert> +1 11:35 < c_hoke> Do we want to go ahead and decide what fedora is and what it stands for on-list? 11:35 < c_hoke> and get that out of the way 11:35 < joadams> i'll put the skeleton plan together ... should we volunteer for sections on our next meeting? 11:35 < joadams> or is that waiting to long? 11:35 < c_hoke> we can volunteer for sections on-list 11:36 < red_alert> If the sections are listed in the wiki, just make The people write their names down there 11:37 < quaid> just a note about "what is Fedora" -- once we decide in f-marketing-l, we have to sell it to the rest of Fedora, who all have their own ideas of what Fedora is; that process may take us longer than the F9 release to complete, so it shouldn't be a dependency on tactical work 11:37 < quaid> red_alert +1 11:37 < c_hoke> quaid +1 I was thinking the same thing 11:38 < quaid> joadams: best practice is, put up an outline on the wiki (quick process), tell people about it via the list; Subscribe to watch the page(s) when people edit the wiki 11:38 < c_hoke> I want us to be able to act now and theorize the whole time, but I recognize that theorizing can be looooong 11:38 < quaid> c_hoke: 'zactly 11:38 < joadams> got it. i'll engage you guys to get it online if (when) i need help. 11:39 < quaid> if there is anyone in the RDU office with joadams who can do a quick demo of how to use Moin, that would be great 11:39 < spevack> I think we need to build enough of a consensus on this "what is Fedora" stuff to get work done, and to ensure that we don't revisit it every couple of months repeatedly 11:39 < c_hoke> would a consessus of this SIG be enough for us to get work done? 11:39 < quaid> iterate the process to get consensus, conduct surveys amongst Fedorans as research and results tests, etc. 11:40 < c_hoke> and then push out, change messaging for F10 if needed? 11:41 < joadams> ok, so now we're talking about brand positioning ("what is fedora"). i've got some tools and templates that could help guide that discussion. 11:41 < quaid> well, one open source way to do things is to do it as best as we can, release early and often, and deal with the community criticism on the fly 11:41 * quaid notes in the discussion so far the list of what marketing needs is: i) a plan; ii) a guide; ii) a brand position 11:42 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 11:42 < c_hoke> +1 to agree, release, revise 11:43 < red_alert> iv) a leader for the irc meetings 11:43 < c_hoke> red_alert: I've agreed to lead these as best I can, but quaid is helping me out for a while 11:44 < c_hoke> I'm more than happy to lead them, though this is new to me 11:44 < GeroldKa> and sorry also a v) a "value" brand 11:44 < quaid> yeah, and we're almost on the last agenda item, too :) 11:44 < quaid> GeroldKa: can you explain what you mean? 11:45 < GeroldKa> a brand is also as strong as his value 11:45 < GeroldKa> let me try to explain ... 11:45 < c_hoke> spevack: available to help john and me with the wiki? 11:45 < spevack> c_hoke: definitely 11:46 < GeroldKa> if you tell someone SAP, everybody knows this is Software 11:46 < c_hoke> well I think that comes with time 11:46 < GeroldKa> if you tell someone Windows; everybody knows Bill Gates 11:46 < c_hoke> I don't think you can tell people what you are, people will decide what you are 11:46 < GeroldKa> if you tell somebody Linux .... 11:46 < GeroldKa> mostly (if not working in IT) think What is it 11:47 < GeroldKa> it is imho up to us, to value that brand 11:47 < c_hoke> but if your identity and messaging is consistent, then what you want to be known as will happen 11:47 < GeroldKa> the brand must be for us: FEDORA 11:47 < quaid> GeroldKa: I'd almost make that part of a long-term mission statement: "When people hear Linux, they think Fedora." 11:48 < GeroldKa> yeah; this is the goal 11:49 < c_hoke> absolutely, but you get to that by everything else, I think 11:49 < GeroldKa> Fedora, not any other distribution; also not RH *g* 11:49 < joadams> that's exactly the types of goals to articulate in the marketing plan 11:49 < quaid> GeroldKa: "When people hear Enterprise (aka business), they think Red Hat." ;-) 11:49 < Syn-Drome> generally anyone in the industry who thinks about a server or any kind of serious business platform the think RH 11:50 * quaid notes down to last 10 minutes for meeting 11:50 < quaid> c_hoke: look to you like we have more to discuss on guide or plan? ready to move to last quick topic? 11:50 < c_hoke> let's move to the last topic, we'll discuss more on f-m-l and assign tasks and leader in the last 5 min 11:51 -!- bo09 [n=bo09@nat/redhat/x-04604cfcd1c3f677] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:51 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Marketing SIG -- task tracking 11:51 < quaid> anyone want to explain what Trac is? 11:52 * c_hoke knows not 11:52 < spevack> better to just point people to an example? 11:52 < quaid> mmcgrath: can you tell us how you use Trac for f-infra 11:52 < spevack> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trac 11:53 < quaid> Trac is for tracking issues and tasks in a project; it has lots of built-in stuff such as auto-notification 11:53 < quaid> would it help esp. folks newer to Fedora contributing ... 11:53 < nim-nim> quaid: track is an all-in-one-solution, loved by admin people that do not want to deploy a set of apps, and hated by pretty much everyone else 11:53 < quaid> to have a more formal tracking mechanism? 11:53 < mmcgrath> quaid: sure 11:53 < quaid> the other way people do it is informal with the Wiki 11:53 < quaid> make pages there, list who does what, etc. 11:54 < mmcgrath> quaid: you just interested in how we use the bug reporting? 11:54 < c_hoke> I wouldn't mind just using the wiki 11:54 < quaid> mmcgrath: is that what you call the task request for Infra? 11:54 < c_hoke> but, I've never used trac 11:54 < c_hoke> so I dunno 11:54 * spevack thinks that getting people who don't have FP wiki access set up and using some space on there is sufficient, but that's just my $.02 11:54 < quaid> c_hoke: it's a good point, too much tool at this point could kill the goose 11:54 < mmcgrath> quaid: yeah, trac's more for bug tracking but has a pretty easy interface so we use it for everything in infrastructure as well. 11:55 < spevack> quaid: if we were doing a bunch of code, i'd suggest trac. for brainstorming and writing, wiki seems fine 11:55 < quaid> wiki method downside is increased project management 11:55 < c_hoke> +1 wiki 11:55 < bascha> +1 on the simplest is best take 11:55 * spevack acknowledges that there are tradeoffs, but thinks wiki is better choice here 11:55 * quaid noted that in this meeting the wiki method seemed to be sufficient 11:55 < mmcgrath> quaid: for example, we have the following types of tickets: bug, task, annoyance, enhancement, change, outage. 11:55 < poelcat> +1 wiki 11:56 < mmcgrath> then we just assign stuff as needed. You can assign it to email addresses as well which is handy, for example sysadmin-web-members@xxxx 11:56 < GeroldKa> +1 wiki 11:56 < mthompson> +1 wiki (but i'll need a tutorial) 11:56 < iWolf> +1 wiki 11:56 < striker57> +1 wiki 11:56 < poelcat> start w/ wiki go to trac when/if wiki doesn't work 11:56 < joadams> +1 i'm with mthompson 11:56 < Syn-Drome> +1 wiki 11:56 < quaid> mmcgrath: I have a feeling we might want it one day, which is why I brought it up; make sure we rolled smoothest from the start 11:56 < spevack> Max will do a wiki setup tutorial for everyone in RDU 11:56 < mmcgrath> quaid: sure thing 11:56 * c_hoke hi-fives Max 11:56 < spevack> we'll schedule it for later this week or early next 11:56 < quaid> spevack: I told folks to contact me about getting in redhat_cla so they don't have to do the GPG dance 11:57 < quaid> spevack: was going to give mmcgrath a list 11:57 < spevack> quaid: excellent. 11:57 < quaid> ok, wiki is the consensus 11:57 < spevack> quaid: i'll let you run with that, then i'll do a wiki usage demo 11:57 < quaid> spevack: ok, then that means ... 11:57 < quaid> ... everyone here who does NOT have a Fedora account 11:57 < quaid> needs to sign up ASAP :) 11:57 * c_hoke notes we're down to about 5 min 11:58 < quaid> and send me your username so I can get you in redhat_cla if you do not want to do the GPG-signing of the CLA yourself 11:58 < Syn-Drome> my account is a bit broken :s 11:58 < quaid> Syn-Drome: :( 11:58 < quaid> c_hoke: we killed the agenda, sir 11:58 < Syn-Drome> but it IS GPG issues 11:58 < rharrison> I sort of see the wiki as the right place for big tasks, like "Make a Pamphlet" track is more for the nitty gritty stuff involved in making it. 11:58 < quaid> "It's dead, Jim." 11:58 < Syn-Drome> so i'll give you an email 11:58 < c_hoke> I know, but I'd like to assign some owners of things before we go 11:58 * rharrison types too slow 11:58 < quaid> c_hoke: want to list out what needs taking? 11:58 < GeroldKa> quaid, is the redhat_cla the same as http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService/Verification 11:59 < quaid> then see who wants to do what 11:59 < quaid> GeroldKa: redhat_cla is the CLA group used to mass-include Red Hat staffers; there are similar ones for dell_cla, etc. 11:59 < ricky> cla_redhat :) 12:00 < quaid> GeroldKa: for when an organization has a single legal relationship with Fedora; e.g. Dell itself agrees to the CLA so each employee there doesn't need to do so as long as they are under employment contract with Dell 12:00 < quaid> aiui, ymmv, ianal, tinla :) 12:00 * joadams will post a skeleton marketing plan to the wiki and engage the marketing-list to volunteer to complete sections 12:00 < quaid> ricky: d'oh! thanks 12:00 < c_hoke> so let's recap 12:00 < quaid> c_hoke: there is your first owner 12:00 < c_hoke> if that's cool ,quaid? 12:00 * joadams will also post some brand positioning tools and templates to the wiki to get the discussion started 12:00 < Syn-Drome> did you get that quaid? 12:00 < GeroldKa> but is the requested cla this one which I posted? 12:01 < c_hoke> so, I'll lead the IRC chats as much as possible, until I get more comfortabel with it, if everyone is cool with that 12:01 < c_hoke> I'll work with joadams on the Plan and Guide outlines 12:01 < Syn-Drome> doin a good job so far c_hoke :D 12:01 < quaid> Syn-Drome: aye 12:01 < c_hoke> that will include the value, GeroldKa 12:02 < c_hoke> Max is going to give us here a rundown of the wiki 12:02 < c_hoke> and we'll post things there ASAP 12:02 < quaid> GeroldKa: I think that group is 'cla_fedora' 12:02 < joadams> i have to sign off ... c_hoke, let me know what else comes up 12:02 < c_hoke> Everyone involved! make sure you register your nick and get on the Fedora wiki 12:02 < c_hoke> joadams: no prob 12:02 -!- joadams [n=joadams@nat/redhat/x-b77cd0b1ca50e254] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:03 < quaid> I'll do the irclog and minutes reply back to the list 12:03 < c_hoke> sounds good 12:03 * quaid needs to call shibby! 12:03 < quaid> </meeting>? 12:03 < c_hoke> alright, I think that's just about it -- Fedora-marketing-list mailing list Fedora-marketing-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
