21:28:58 <sdziallas> okay, folks, my watch says it's time... let's
get this party started!
21:29:34 <sdziallas> the agenda is here:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/Meetings/2009-01-14
21:29:46 <sdziallas> now how about a quick roll call? who's here?
21:29:56 <rdieter> yo
21:30:20 * tomeu (n=tomeu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined
#fedora-edu
21:30:40 <sdziallas> tomeu: :)
21:30:40 * hanthana here
21:30:49 * ongolaBoy (n=chatzill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-edu
21:31:23 <tomeu> hi all
21:31:36 <sdziallas> Hi! (just in time for the roll call ;)
21:31:38 <hanthana> hi tomeu :)
21:32:09 <sdziallas> well, sounds like we could just move on
following the agenda...: CURRENT STATUS
21:32:51 <sdziallas> so let me put it this way: some preliminary work
on an education spin has been done, here's the wiki page for it:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Education/EducationLive
21:32:59 <hanthana> appreciate if we can introduce, at list FAS name
21:33:01 <hanthana> ;)
21:33:42 <rdieter> good idea, Rex Dieter, rdieter
21:34:02 <tomeu> I'm a sugar developer, Tomeu Vizoso, tomeu
21:34:10 * sdziallas was too quick - as usual. ;)
21:34:12 <hanthana> Danishka Navin, fas: snavin
21:34:21 <hanthana> sdziallas: no worries ;)
21:34:29 <sdziallas> you should know me: Sebastian Dziallas, sdz
21:34:35 <hanthana> ha ha
21:35:06 <sdziallas> okay?
21:35:07 <hanthana> any other attendees?
21:35:16 <hanthana> sdziallas: go ahead
21:35:50 * ongolaBoy is just a visitor interested in education matters...
21:36:06 <sdziallas> :)
21:36:14 <rdieter> ongolaBoy: welcome
21:36:20 <hanthana> hi ongolaBoy :)
21:36:59 <sdziallas> there we go! as I said, we've started. there's a
table in the wiki, listing some applications, I've drafted some
kickstart files up, and well:
21:37:36 <rdieter> how'd xcfe vs kde go? need more beer to decide?
21:37:40 <sdziallas> I've currently two builds around here, one is
KDE-based, the other one uses XFCE.
21:38:06 <sdziallas> I think that's the decision we need to make
first. and now.
21:38:17 <sdziallas> To give you a quick overview:
21:39:18 <sdziallas> The KDE spin currently only includes Qt4-based
software, since I wouldn't want kdelibs3 being pulled in. It includes a
number of apps, but not all (yet) - e.g., I didn't add krita (or another
Gimp alternative), yet.
21:39:27 <sdziallas> It's size is right now 636 MB.
21:40:28 <sdziallas> The XFCE one is pretty much complete, includes
some other apps, due to its GTK-nature. But you get at least kdeedu on
both. That spin has right now a size of 666 MB, even though I've one or
two ideas for further apps.
21:40:49 <sdziallas> I feel it's clear enough that we're not going to
release both.
21:41:22 <sdziallas> So what we need is a decision, on how we're
going to proceed.
21:41:27 <hanthana> we need at least 20MB for re-spin for other
locales, so xfce is my choice
21:41:58 <hanthana> coz, xfce spin contain more apps than kde spin
21:43:27 <sdziallas> As I said, I can work with both. I just need
some feedback here. I'm personally using partly XFCE on the OLPC, but
this doesn't prevent me from using KDE or something else (as Sugar ;).
21:43:52 <ongolaBoy> for which people do you intend to release this
spin ?
21:44:49 <rdieter> ongolaBoy: good question, we don't have a clearly
targetted audience, mostly for lack of feedback (ie, not sure what
people want/need).
21:45:14 <sdziallas> It's for students, but also for teachers, pupils
and schools - though, we're not going to put gcompris on it, because its
intended for pupils under our target age. I'd tend to talk about
something like an age of 12+...
21:45:30 * rdieter is indifferent wrt xfce vs kde, might be
interesting to explore something new/different with xfce.
21:46:04 <ongolaBoy> personaly i prefer xfce because of the low
machines that i have in my environment...
21:46:06 <sdziallas> rdieter is right there: in the past, we've been
doing what we thought would fit people's needs best. but due to a lack
of feedback, it turned out, that it was not always the best...
21:46:39 <ongolaBoy> but i suggest you to release what you, the
developpers, want to do
21:47:43 <sdziallas> yeah, that's also why I want us to talk about
it. but the better we can fit people's needs, the better for us, as
developers, because our stuff becomes - hopefully - more used ;)
21:48:08 <sdziallas> so I think... we'll have a closer look at the
xfce spin?!
21:48:18 <hanthana> so, guys lets fix xfce as the spin
21:48:23 <ongolaBoy> so, if i was able to vote ;) i prefer xfce
21:48:43 <hanthana> +1 xfce
21:48:44 <sdziallas> okay, I'll take a note and update the spin's
page in the wiki with an updated list.
21:49:45 * ctyler_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:50:01 <tomeu> about sugar, better wait until there's better
support for unmodified apps
21:50:07 <tomeu> next release, hopefully
21:50:41 <rdieter> there's already a sugar spin anyway, isn't there?
21:50:42 <sdziallas> tomeu: yeah, in the meantime, we have the sugar
spin (which I hope to get approved soonish, too)
21:50:50 <sdziallas> heh. *hint* :)
21:51:06 <rdieter> that said, perhaps there could be merging here
21:51:45 <tomeu> yeah, I guess it will be very difficult to have a
single spin good for all ages
21:52:10 <sdziallas> yep, that's true. we can't target everyone
without... bloating it for someone.
21:52:42 <sdziallas> (neither sugar nor kdeedu is imo bloat, but I'd
like to select apps, too)
21:53:02 <tomeu> you can keep focusing now on 12+ and do something
else later for <12
21:53:48 <ongolaBoy> +1 for +12
21:54:22 <sdziallas> yeah, I feel we should consider something on
behalf of how those spins will be working together (or who they're
targetting)...
21:54:56 <sdziallas> I'll make another note on that in the wiki /
meeting summary.
21:55:37 <sdziallas> does anybody want to add something to the
current state or can we move on?
21:56:24 <sdziallas> I'll take that as a no ;)
21:56:30 <sdziallas> Well, what needs to be done?
21:57:06 <sdziallas> The spin needs some polishing: I'll update the
kickstart file and will - once it's somehow ready - submit it to the
Spin SIG for technical approval.
21:57:27 <sdziallas> Next steps are then approval from the board and
finally from rel-eng. Those are the steps... concerning policy.
21:57:51 <hanthana> sdziallas: before that shall we do a small user
testing?
21:58:03 <sdziallas> What else do we need? Imo, feedback, feedback,
and still more feedback...
21:58:12 <hanthana> by giving the spin to selected people [students
and teachers]
21:58:27 <sdziallas> (which brings us also to point 03 on the list -
they go hand in hand, I think)
21:58:57 <sdziallas> hanthana: I think it might be a good idea - not
necessarily before submitting it to Spin SIG, but I think such a testing
can't be too bad. So a +1 here.
21:59:20 <ongolaBoy> 'hand in hand' should be the fastest way to have
feedback from users
21:59:29 <hanthana> i can help for that
21:59:35 <sdziallas> We might think about a fitting time (frame)
here, but we can run such a test in parallel.
21:59:43 <hanthana> as i have contacts with local Edu officials
21:59:44 <sdziallas> Yeah, ongolaBoy!
21:59:52 <sdziallas> hanthana: that would be great!
22:00:21 <hanthana> lets fix a time frame for 1st feedback
22:00:22 * ongolaBoy has a low internet connection :(
22:00:38 <sdziallas> Btw: For any inofficial - pre-release spins - we
need a possibility to host it somewhere. (If you don't want to build it
everytime on your own)
22:00:44 * sdziallas checks F11 schedule
22:00:44 <hanthana> i mean, lets give them one week for testing/playing
22:01:28 <sdziallas> hanthana: a week or so would be fine with me,
maybe two, but not more, since we also need some time for the results
and working on it...
22:01:39 <hanthana> yeah
22:02:03 <hanthana> sdziallas: lets ready for one week,
22:02:13 <sdziallas> okay!
22:02:18 <hanthana> they might take another week if they want
22:02:24 <sdziallas> (another note for me and the wiki ;)
22:02:28 <sdziallas> sounds good to me.
22:02:59 <sdziallas> next question: when do we want to start this?
Here's the schedule for F11:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/Schedule
22:03:22 <sdziallas> Feature freeze is at the beginning of march.
22:04:07 <hanthana> 2009-04-14 - Final Development Freeze
22:04:12 <sdziallas> I need some time for preparing the kickstart,
then it needs to be built. And then, we let the testing run for a week
or so, right?
22:04:19 <hanthana> lets target march
22:04:21 * heffer (n=felix@fedora/heffer) has joined #fedora-edu
22:04:48 <sdziallas> for testing? or for having something really
working ready?
22:05:05 <hanthana> really working ready
22:05:24 <sdziallas> (this doesn't prevent us from working on
pre-release stuff, either.)
22:05:27 <hanthana> sdziallas: i would like to start testing before
February
22:06:23 <sdziallas> any objections or additions here? we might need
to use a F10 base then for testing; Rawhide might be too buggy.
22:07:35 <ongolaBoy> the 'final' release should rolled out with f11
right ?
22:07:45 <rdieter> I can help host a spin
22:07:47 <hanthana> yes
22:07:53 <hanthana> rdieter: cool
22:07:55 <rdieter> for testing, that is.
22:08:06 <sdziallas> rdieter: that would be great :)
22:08:25 <hanthana> i am also trying to locally host
22:08:48 <hanthana> here we have schooNet, and University Network
22:09:27 <rdieter> I can be a torrent seed/tracker is what I had in mind.
22:09:44 <rdieter> hanthana: you?
22:10:57 <rdieter> as a side note, I finally dropped the f9-edu
preview spin that had been hosted for quite awhile, nope nobody minds...
22:10:59 <hanthana> rdieter: i am planning for direct download and
hand to hand distribution
22:11:25 <rdieter> hanthana: cool, when/if that's available, let me
know, and I'll add it as a web seed for the torrent
22:11:49 <sdziallas> rdieter: nope... that's more than okay ;)
22:12:03 <sdziallas> okay, this sounds like a good plan (having both)!
22:12:31 <hanthana> tomorrow i am talking to edu officials, regarding
hosting and distributing of the test copy
22:12:52 <hanthana> and we need a creating a bugzilla component - ToDo
22:13:21 <hanthana> btw, sdziallas when we are going to start the
testing?
22:13:38 <hanthana> lets fix a time duration now
22:14:01 * sdziallas hasn' checked out yet, how to do this; but I'll
make a note regarding bugzilla, to look into this
22:14:44 <rdieter> I would venture that spin approval is a prereq for
any bz component creation, but I could be wrong
22:14:45 <sdziallas> well... I don't need a long time for preparing
the kickstart file (so somebody wants further apps on it - *that* is the
time to suggest them, to get 'em tested) ;)
22:15:09 <sdziallas> *if somebody wants further apps...
22:16:01 <hanthana> shall we start from 25th Jan to 7th Feb
22:16:08 <sdziallas> rdieter: might be true. if necessary, I can ask
around ;)
22:16:59 <sdziallas> hanthana: I'm fine with that.
22:17:35 <sdziallas> leaves us enough time to make sure we're not
distributing bad stuff to the testers and is still way enough before march.
22:17:36 <sdziallas> +1
22:18:47 <sdziallas> any objections? if not, I'll add that to the
wiki after the meeting, too.
22:19:11 * ongolaBoy has nothing to add ...
22:19:31 <sdziallas> okey dokey. (just want to make sure everybody's
happy)
22:19:39 <hanthana> heh
22:20:03 <sdziallas> what else there is left? documentation? an artwork?
22:20:32 <hanthana> 04. Marketting plan for spreading fedora edu spin
22:20:52 <sdziallas> marketing is good. :)
22:20:59 <hanthana> Marketting plan for spreading fedora edu spin
22:20:59 <hanthana> workshops, seminas, installFest, etc
22:20:59 <hanthana> Fedora edu - tshirt for those who working for the
project ;)
22:21:17 <sdziallas> w00t!
22:21:52 <hanthana> i do ..... workshops, seminas, installFest, etc
22:21:57 <ongolaBoy> concerning Artwork, is it possible to ask to
Nicu and his friends to create special stuff off edu
22:22:17 <sdziallas> I've... submitted a request for artwork some
time ago:
22:22:24 <ongolaBoy> but i don't know how you communicate between
team in general ...
22:22:27 <rdieter> most definietely possible, couldn't hurt to ask
the fedora-art team, they're usually quite good at delivering
22:22:33 <sdziallas>
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/DesignService#Fedora_Education
22:23:04 <sdziallas> but that was ages ago - I recieved a wiki banner
from tatica, but I didn't add it yet, since I felt... it would need to
be discussed with her / the artwork team first.
22:23:12 <hanthana> sdziallas: we need a poster/ Boucher
22:23:40 <sdziallas> I also asked for special artwork for our spin,
such as a wallpaper, but: work in progress, afaik ;)
22:23:42 <sdziallas> yeah!
22:23:53 <rdieter> would probably help if someone volunteered to lead
the art effort, and potentially poke/prod/bribe them
22:25:27 <sdziallas> yeah, well, I can go and update the request
quite a bit... I'm a bit lazy about poking 'em, but I could do that.
(hopefully, I don't forget) ;)
22:25:32 * sdziallas makes another mental note.
22:26:53 <sdziallas> okay? anything else on behalf of artwork? nope?...
22:27:13 <ongolaBoy> sdziallas:at least for artwork, update your
request by replacing kde by xfce...
22:27:16 <hanthana> sdziallas: 'adding a wallpaper ' grate idea!!
22:27:39 <sdziallas> ongolaBoy, yeah; will do. it's quite outdated
there, I know...
22:27:54 <sdziallas> okay :)
22:28:01 <hanthana> do we need CD/DVD cover?
22:28:09 <hanthana> stickers?
22:28:54 <sdziallas> maybe later on, yeah. and some flyers couldn't
hurt either. But partly general Fedora stuff should be fine, too.
22:29:02 * sdziallas loves our t-shirts :)
22:29:47 <hanthana> we can add Edu spin promotion with F11 release
22:30:15 <sdziallas> (for which we need rel-engs approval, but I'll
take care of that)
22:31:24 <sdziallas> okay? can we move on here? (sorry if I'm rushing
a bit)
22:31:34 <ongolaBoy> .
22:31:40 <hanthana> ok
22:31:43 <hanthana> next!
22:31:57 <hanthana> Documentation:
22:32:05 <hanthana> HowTos related to the Fedora Education Spin.
22:32:05 <hanthana> for an example;
22:32:05 <hanthana> 'How to install Edu Spin to the system?'
22:32:05 <hanthana> 'How to install other software using Fedora repo?'
22:33:18 <sdziallas> the latter one should be more or less explained
somewhere (I'd bet there are already howtos for this), but the first or
'which additional educational software can I get?' or 'what does this
app offer me?' would be other examples...
22:34:10 * ctyler (n=chris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-edu
22:35:21 <sdziallas> this one could be worked out together with
questions we might recieve from testing...
22:35:36 <hanthana> yes
22:35:43 <hanthana> good idea
22:36:23 <ongolaBoy> 'what package can i use for
algebra,geometry,electronics,...?'
22:36:30 <sdziallas> exactly!
22:36:38 <hanthana> ongolaBoy: +1
22:37:11 <sdziallas> okay... anything else you want to discuss?
22:37:31 <hanthana> fixing dates for next meeting?
22:37:59 <sdziallas> well, that's our last task, before adjourning
the meeting, I think ;)
22:38:18 <sdziallas> so if there's nothing more to discuss, I thing
we can head for that, yeah.
22:39:06 <hanthana> 'getting more ppl ' we can achieve this during
testing period
22:39:23 <sdziallas> yep, that's marketing, testing, all that...
22:39:47 <hanthana> we have to meet before starting the testing session
22:39:50 <sdziallas> honestly, I'm not sure, yet: next week would be
the 21st. I think we should talk again before beginning the testing, touh.
22:39:56 <sdziallas> *though
22:39:58 <sdziallas> yep.
22:40:42 <hanthana> ok 21st fine for me
22:40:57 <hanthana> rdieter: ongolaBoy: sdziallas: any idea?
22:41:43 <sdziallas> well, let's note the 21st for the moment. I
cannot promise that it will work for me, yet, but I think it should.
22:41:50 <sdziallas> (if the others agree)
22:42:03 <ongolaBoy> hum... i can't give a date because i'm not very
available ;choose date that fit to you
22:42:11 <ongolaBoy> any date i mean
22:43:39 <sdziallas> okay? 21st for now?
22:43:53 <ongolaBoy> .
22:44:34 <sdziallas> there we go. we might reconsider it again, if it
doesn't fit for anybody. well... is that it? are we done?
22:45:07 <hanthana> ok
22:45:31 <sdziallas> thanks everybody for attending!
22:45:45 <hanthana> thanks all!
22:45:45 <sdziallas> :)
22:45:58 <hanthana> lets make a good spin for the community!!
22:46:03 <ongolaBoy> i appreciate your efforts
22:46:19 <sdziallas> yeah! :)
22:46:22 <sdziallas> so I'd say...
22:46:23 <sdziallas> 5
22:46:23 <sdziallas> 4
22:46:24 <sdziallas> 3
22:46:26 <sdziallas> 2
22:46:27 <sdziallas> 1
22:46:32 <sdziallas> 1/2
22:46:43 <sdziallas> = meeting adjourned =
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