-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 23:59:54 <sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 23:59:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec 16 23:59:54 2009 UTC. The chair is sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:59:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:00 <sparks> #chair jjmcd 00:00:00 <zodbot> Current chairs: jjmcd sparks 00:00:10 <sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:00:11 * sparks 00:00:15 * ianweller 00:01:33 * bcotton is here 00:01:46 * rudi is here 00:01:56 * jjmcd . 00:03:12 * sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in 00:03:30 * Tsagadai is here 00:06:02 <sparks> Okay, let's get started 00:06:08 <sparks> #topic Action items from last week's meeting 00:06:19 <sparks> Sparks to send a message to L10N and Logistics about a docs planning meeting for early next week 00:06:31 <sparks> Yeah, that didn't happen. Still working on it, though. 00:07:10 <sparks> #action sparks to coordinate a meeting between docs, L10N, and others on translation questions and F13 schedule. 00:07:19 <sparks> jjmcd to review poelcat's schedule and come up with a recommendation before the meeting 00:07:36 <jjmcd> done - link in agenda 00:07:36 <sparks> jjmcd: Is your action items waiting on my action item? 00:07:42 <sparks> Oh! 00:07:42 <jjmcd> No 00:07:55 <sparks> #link http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/F13-RelNotes-MajorTasks.html 00:07:56 <jjmcd> Mostly I want to focus on getting the core deliverables right 00:08:01 <sparks> Excellent 00:08:17 <sparks> Okay, moving on... 00:08:23 <sparks> #topic Release Notes 00:08:27 <jjmcd> For F12 all the clutter caused us to miss an important detail - the schedule had us building the rpm two weeks after jesse needed it 00:08:39 <sparks> There is a question... Should L10n merge POs? 00:08:59 <sparks> Yes, the F12 schedule wasn't ideal... 00:09:08 <jjmcd> I am feeling like they ought to be paying the price of not getting the new tfx up 00:09:30 <jjmcd> As long as we are a crutch for them, they really have no reason to get off dead center 00:10:15 <sparks> I'm okay with doing things like RH does them... let the translators do everything 00:10:33 <jjmcd> Now, logistically, this might not be realistic, but I think we should at least make the threat 00:10:48 <rudi> I think it's the right direction to be heading 00:11:25 <sparks> I'm not sure that logistically it's not realistic. It certainly is possible. A lot of our business practices would have to change. 00:11:35 <rudi> +1 sparks 00:12:01 <sparks> BUT you wouldn't have things like the French pulling their translations. If they weren't ready then they wouldn't publish them 00:12:14 <rudi> I don't know whether shifting all the burden for producing and publishing the translated docs can go from Docs -> L10N in the space of one release 00:12:15 <jjmcd> yeah, I mean in principle it seems to make sense, but I got the impression that a lot of their translators had very limited technical capability so it might all fall on glezos 00:12:22 <sparks> rudi: Hell, I've shaken everything else up around here... 00:12:28 <rudi> lolz 00:12:30 <jjmcd> hehe 00:12:57 <rudi> jjmcd -- I think there would be a *lot* of hand-holding to begin with 00:12:58 <sparks> Well... if we are going to rotate our practice around the tool, then the tool better be easy to use. 00:13:11 <sparks> Luckily Publican 1.x isn't difficult 00:13:26 <jjmcd> yeah -- but I think many, maybe even most, actually do the translation in aarghh windows 00:13:30 <sparks> rudi: We could push information into the translators guide 00:13:34 <sparks> which we should do anyway 00:13:43 <rudi> jjmcd -- fortauntely, Publican 1 runs fine on Windows :) 00:13:52 <jjmcd> Oh, is that right!!! 00:13:54 * sparks wouldn't know about that 00:13:55 <jjmcd> holy smokes 00:14:04 <rudi> Mac is coming RSN :) 00:14:45 <jjmcd> that could be a big win then 00:14:49 <rudi> sparks -- yeah; I plan to update parts of the TQSG shortly to cover Publican 1 usage 00:14:58 <jjmcd> If the translators could immediately see their product 00:15:01 <sparks> rudi: +1 00:15:19 <rudi> The problem is still the interoperabilty of Publican and Transifex though 00:15:40 <sparks> well... they should know how to build their documents even if the "owner" is still going to handle the publishing. 00:15:44 <jjmcd> Oh, yeah, so they might have Publican on win, but not msgmerge 00:16:04 <sparks> Well... Transifex needs to be updated... period 00:16:05 <rudi> Actually, the gettext tools are packaged for Windows too 00:16:21 <rudi> And are included in the Publican installer .exe too :) 00:16:34 <jjmcd> Ahhh, now that's a plan 00:16:37 <rudi> But yeah; the Transifex problem is real and growing 00:16:44 <jjmcd> growing? 00:17:15 <rudi> Translators have had multiple issues over the last few weeks with accessing and uploading files 00:17:37 <jjmcd> what has changed? 00:18:08 <rudi> Which has exposed the bigger problem in that the current version is an unmaintained one, and that the Transifex guys don't really have the time to maintain Fedora's instance 00:18:43 <rudi> I think in this case, it was specifically a bug in infra; but it took an enormous amount of time to track down; which caused a lot of grief for L10N 00:19:57 <sparks> Well, the plan to migrate to 0.7 is there 00:20:19 <sparks> Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:20:50 <sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:21:00 <sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:21:12 <sparks> I wish David was here tonight... 00:21:19 <sparks> mchua_afk: You around? 00:21:36 <sparks> So there are still modules that need to be packaged... 00:21:52 <sparks> and apparently the new version of Zikula has a library that needs to be yanked out and packaged. 00:22:08 <sparks> David is working that part but he needs some help. 00:22:49 <sparks> Anyone want to volunteer to help David with Zikula? 00:23:52 <sparks> I'm also going to need help with Limesurvey. 00:24:19 <sparks> It has several libs in it that I have to pull out. I've never had to deal with that kind of thing so I'm not sure how to go about doing that. 00:24:44 <sparks> #topic Does yum langpack support help us? 00:24:51 <sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin 00:25:17 <sparks> jjmcd: Did you add this? 00:25:47 <jjmcd> Sounds like if we package a guide and individual langpack, people can install, say, user-guide and auto get their local lang 00:25:54 <sparks> juhp: You around? 00:25:56 <jjmcd> and they don't need to get them all 00:26:12 <sparks> Sounds cool. 00:26:28 <jjmcd> Doesn't seem to help RN but it does guides 00:26:28 * sparks was hoping Jens was monitoring IRC to talk about this. 00:26:32 <jjmcd> *HOWEVER* 00:26:55 <jjmcd> It looks to me that making the langpack is going to take a bit of head scratching 00:27:07 <jjmcd> At least for html, not so much for yelp 00:27:31 <sparks> rudi: Is Jens in throwing distance? 00:28:22 <sparks> jjmcd: So it would be difficult to get it to work with html but would work with yelp? 00:28:24 <rudi> sparks -- down the hall 00:28:33 <rudi> hang on :) 00:28:35 <sparks> rudi: Didn't know if you could throw something at him. 00:28:35 <jjmcd> Well, that's my read 00:28:49 <jjmcd> Not impossible, but it would take some creativity 00:29:08 <rudi> ping juhp 00:30:19 <sparks> rudi: Oh well... 00:30:29 <jjmcd> I think I could do it but I would hit it with a hell of a big club. stickster might be a little more elegant about it 00:30:35 <sparks> jjmcd: Well, I'd definitely be interested in how it would all work. 00:30:36 <rudi> Hang on -- I'll try in person :) 00:31:38 <rudi> Sorry -- not at desk 00:31:52 <jjmcd> In yelp 2 you just add the omf, in 3, put the new language in the right place and it all works 00:31:55 <sparks> rudi: That's okay 00:32:12 <jjmcd> In html it would take some editing during install. 00:32:20 <sparks> And 3 is coming out in Sep? 00:33:22 <sparks> shaunm: When is Yelp 3 coming out? 00:33:23 <jjmcd> Well, the Q isn't when it is coming out, it is when will it be packaged 00:33:44 <sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, but as soon as it hits the streets we can start playing 00:33:44 <jjmcd> But it is such a minor diff, the OMF ain't rocket science 00:34:57 <sparks> Okay... 00:35:07 <sparks> Well, this is all very interesting news. 00:35:37 <sparks> Anything else on this topic? 00:35:38 <jjmcd> I think doc langpacks are prolly F14 anyway. Too risky to try to use them for 13 00:35:58 <sparks> Can Publican make langpacks? 00:36:10 <sparks> or is it just the way they are "titled"? 00:37:23 <jjmcd> Publican can't package except in the trivial case 00:38:52 <jjmcd> but if we have langpack and if they are similar to RHEL maybe we can talk them into it 00:38:54 <sparks> Okay, maybe we can get more details on this later. 00:39:03 <sparks> ya 00:39:17 <sparks> Okay... moving on 00:39:26 <sparks> #topic Guide Status 00:39:38 <sparks> Anyone want to talk about their Guides? 00:40:16 <Tsagadai> I'm making progress 00:40:18 <Tsagadai> :) 00:40:39 <rudi> Tsagadai -- did you see that bug about screenshots? :P 00:40:51 <Tsagadai> I go on leave soon so there won't be any significant progress on that until january 00:41:00 <Tsagadai> but it is planned 00:42:07 <sparks> Anyone else? 00:43:06 * bcotton promises to have some kind of progress to report in the first 2010 meeting 00:43:23 * sparks marks down bcotton's promise 00:43:34 <sparks> #topic New Guides 00:43:39 <sparks> Any new guides coming out? 00:44:45 <sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:44:55 <sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED 00:44:56 <rudi> anross -- did you want to say something about QE and bugzilla? 00:45:05 <sparks> We quite a few open tickets. 00:45:25 <anross> rudi: didn't have a speech planned ;) 00:45:33 <sparks> If you have tickets assigned to your project please grab them, mark them assigned, and try to work them. 00:45:50 <sparks> At least make sure the person who filed it knows the ticket is being worked. 00:45:52 <anross> but... in general... how do people feel about having someone progress bugs from modified to closed 00:46:09 <anross> 2nd set of eyes 00:46:46 <jjmcd> Well, a number of them are waiting for a push of F11 RN's. The source has been updated, I don't know the translation status, but mostly waiting for an rpm 00:47:48 <rudi> jjmcd -- and I think one of the blockers for that is working out what to do with the PackageKit warning... 00:47:55 <jjmcd> That's F12 00:48:14 <jjmcd> And actually, I don't think thats a biggie 00:48:30 <jjmcd> more challenging is the CPU one, and I don't want to do the two separately 00:49:06 <jjmcd> THe prob with the CPU one is that I can't figure out how to find an authoratative answer. We've had several "authorities" with different opinions 00:49:32 <rudi> True 00:49:44 <shaunm> sparks: september, with gnome 3 00:50:01 <jjmcd> I haven't got much evidence to prefer one opinion over another 00:50:24 <shaunm> there will be development releases before then, of course. but you won't want to target it until you're targetting gnome 3 00:51:00 <sparks> shaunm: cool 00:51:31 <sparks> jjmcd: Maybe just put in the higher of the two CPUs and when the lesser one works then they are still happy 00:51:55 <jjmcd> I may just ask stickster_afk who to ask 00:52:07 <sparks> +1 00:52:23 <jjmcd> If I can catch him on one of those two minute intervals in the AM when he's not _afk 00:52:33 <sparks> jjmcd: There are a lot of RN tickets out there that are still flagged as NEW. 00:52:41 <sparks> good luck 00:52:45 <juhp> sparks: hi 00:52:46 <jjmcd> Oh, I'll look at them 00:53:02 <jjmcd> I thought I had most of the new ones 00:53:02 <sparks> Okay, anything else on the bugs? 00:53:18 <juhp> (ah langpacks) 00:53:27 <jjmcd> Hi Jens 00:53:32 <sparks> juhp: Hi! We want to know more about the langpack feature you are working on. Can you wait a sec? 00:54:22 <juhp> yup np 00:54:26 <sparks> Okay... moving on... 00:54:43 <sparks> #topic Langpack (again) 00:55:02 <sparks> juhp: So can you give us a brief overview of your langpack feature? 00:55:16 <juhp> :) sorry was in a phone meeting 00:55:45 <juhp> bug 536737 00:55:46 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=536737 medium, medium, ---, panemade, ASSIGNED, Review Request: yum-langpacks - langpacks plugin for yum 00:56:01 <juhp> yeah basically the package is ready to do into f13 00:56:50 <sparks> And what would it do for us? 00:56:51 <juhp> it is a pretty simple yum plugin that allows langpacks for a user's locale etc to be autoinstalled when they install or update a package 00:57:48 <juhp> so i didn't read all the context above but if you have a master package and then translations were "langpacks" they could probably be installed for the user 00:58:11 <jjmcd> OK, dumb question, what makes a langpack? 00:58:14 <sparks> Could this be done in anaconda, too? 00:58:21 <sparks> yeah, and what jjmcd said. 00:58:31 <juhp> yup 00:58:36 <juhp> <jjmcd> Sounds like if we package a guide and individual langpack, people can install, say, user-guide and auto get their local lang 00:58:45 <juhp> sorry yup to ^ 00:58:49 <rudi> juhp -- so, for example, if the masterpackage was fedora-release-notes-en-US -- then users could automatically pull in fedora-release-notes-de-DE ? 00:59:04 <juhp> for anaconda - currently it would probably have to go to language support groups 00:59:15 <juhp> I haven't tested anaconda yet but it might work 00:59:47 <jjmcd> presumably, a langpack would have to have some install script to merge it with the installed content 00:59:49 <juhp> rudi: I would prefer fedora-release-notes to fedora-release-notes-en-US 01:00:07 <juhp> jjmcd: merge? 01:00:07 <rudi> OK -- but that's the mechanism :) 01:00:15 <juhp> rudi: yep 01:00:44 <jjmcd> Well, we are talking docs, so we don't have message files laying around, we're not going to translate at run time 01:00:45 <rudi> juhp -- and what specifies something as a master package or a "translation package"? Something in the .spec? 01:00:51 <juhp> rudi: I think fedora-release-notes-en-US would work too so forget my comment above for this discussion anyway :) 01:01:13 <juhp> rudi: currently it is hardcoded in the plugin ;) 01:01:22 <rudi> Awesome :) 01:01:34 <juhp> I am planning to have metadata you can provide later 01:01:42 <juhp> s/have/support/ 01:02:33 <juhp> rudi: do yeah for now you could just file a bug and I can add base/langpacks pairs to the list 01:02:39 <juhp> s/do/so 01:02:46 <rudi> Wow! 01:02:57 <rudi> That's a very cool solution :() 01:02:58 <juhp> is it good? :) 01:03:00 <rudi> :) even 01:03:05 <juhp> ok :) 01:03:07 <juhp> thanks 01:03:44 <rudi> We had been idly wishing last week that PackageKit could do something like this :) 01:03:49 <juhp> rudi: you may still need to add them in comps too though for <language>-support groups 01:03:51 <rudi> And Jens makes it happen :) 01:04:02 <sparks> juhp: Can you come back next week and talk more about this? 01:04:08 <juhp> yeah it would have been in f12 if I had been a bit faster... 01:04:13 <juhp> sure 01:04:19 <sparks> cool 01:04:28 <juhp> but next week it should be in rawhide too... 01:04:30 <juhp> by 01:04:52 <juhp> the package is approved but I didn't have time to import it yet :) 01:05:08 <juhp> glad you guys want to use it :) 01:05:29 <sparks> cool! 01:05:43 <juhp> thanks for asking :) 01:06:00 <sparks> Okay, any other questions for Jens while we have him on RH's dime? 01:06:34 <sparks> juhp: Thanks for coming by to chat. 01:06:41 <juhp> pleasure 01:06:45 <sparks> #topic Anything else? 01:06:54 <sparks> Okay, is there anything else anyone wants to talk about? 01:07:41 <jjmcd> Did you see S1775 passed unanimously 01:07:55 <sparks> yes! :) 01:08:00 <jjmcd> (OT but "anything else ;-)) 01:08:27 * sparks already sent it to the packet network 01:08:45 <jjmcd> hehe - I have a cron job does that 01:09:03 <sparks> Okay... anyone? anything? 01:09:31 <sparks> Well.... 01:09:41 <sparks> Thanks everyone for coming out! 01:09:46 <sparks> #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJLKbn4AAoJEDbiLlqcYamxSeUQALf/gBKweE03i0e8w3nhNTt2 5pqThkuw+ZRjp2bHZLE4yZfzv1Ax4xK/9u7bqnQVU+brk7XIqh8uDEUkLJfr+zOH NUxESGpVJq3OsAyggGAFUSUk1iE9s9EYHhN8aUgMIBE7hhvtoGQd8O39DokYeMPA nUzoGDjBs8n/ndGGBVVjdDAz54BGRsxzE2X8NLuGHu0LgsPdPvttCquXa/UfHsHM E/25HezSjhV56omVOZVBtAlj4xtVBeloBpl3wT3JiC6xuz2jXq1LF1Deodqt3qeN F1Yj1o4YEQIWYdD8DKv68Z5tDyjXvnU+f0+0qix6oQDGswWMkJ5D6DK/JYAAgJur GU7jDUCSd6jORzPHxQijS7vEGYRMXGwP9ftwiIMEMesd8W9go6Tp/2ppGZpuM0YY URtHGTrMNRZ5tWt2ZOvxZs+F/QaQP4EYCGPCzmDNDtYSkcrWL40BQB1oFDpzRVKQ 1lTv7mG9J/dnxAnm0tLu9oxYtWz0JTk7S/Yd2nB7xXamaYBvWIjh0/OlL7qYods9 chykQi1ZqAJ3+Qj3Gi5qGxhAf9H+LyTp3QcqTezlWjHVQtz2lo27R5dkpq+qlYF9 F/uIXVOtJBQbTyll2orYp8wf6+nSEsMvvnuZRLXSOO2QWmw/CFjdgQJscAHQZ926 fEpbsM8Ofucaz4tVUwcq =Fk/8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
