00:01:15 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:24 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:01:26 * Sparks 00:01:28 * danielsmw is here. 00:01:33 * itbegins is here 00:01:38 <jjmcd> hier ben ik 00:01:47 * ianweller 00:01:59 * rudi is here 00:02:08 <ianweller> quaid: over here, not #fedora-meeting-1 ;) 00:03:11 <quaid> heh, like I can tell the difference in irssi 00:03:14 * quaid is here, too 00:03:58 <itbegins> ping me if you need me for a topic I can help with (i.e. the CMS) 00:04:24 * ianweller assigns itbegins to something non-CMS related ;) 00:04:34 <Sparks> itbegins: Oh we'll be talking CMS tonight 00:04:42 <itbegins> ianweller, I wouldn't do that if you want it to get done 00:04:48 <ianweller> hehe 00:05:38 <itbegins> Last week's work hours: 7.30-19.00, 7.30-18.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-18.00 00:05:55 <itbegins> anyway, I'm polluting the meeting log... 00:06:00 <quaid> what? you took the weekend OFF? 00:06:09 * quaid *cough* slacker *cough* ;-D 00:06:25 <Sparks> Okay, let's get started... 00:06:28 <itbegins> quaid, no weekend working for the time being. I get that off to explore Manhattan 00:06:37 <Sparks> #topic Last week's action items 00:06:45 <Sparks> Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. 00:06:58 <Sparks> #action Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm 00:07:09 <Sparks> Yeah, I didn't get that done. 00:07:19 <Sparks> Sparks to write rollout plan for license change... 2nd alarm 00:07:22 <Sparks> done 00:07:31 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:07:45 <Sparks> We'll come back to this one a little later. 00:07:54 <Sparks> rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license 00:08:02 <Sparks> #action rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm 00:08:17 <rudi> Well, I've got a sample in place here: 00:08:24 <rudi> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:08:24 <Sparks> rudi: We'll come back to this one but I think you are on the right track. 00:08:50 <Sparks> rudi: Cool. We'll hit that one in a few when we get to the license discussion. 00:08:52 <rudi> Now including attribution information after discussions on the list yesterday 00:08:57 <rudi> KK 00:09:07 <Sparks> Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula 00:09:14 <Sparks> #action Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm 00:09:24 <Sparks> Stickster to blog to see if we can get some PHP/JS folks to help with out with some Zikula modules. 00:09:40 <Sparks> stickster_afk isn't here but I think this was done. 00:09:46 <danielsmw> It was; I saw it. 00:09:51 <Sparks> Cool 00:09:53 <Sparks> Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:09:54 <itbegins> I am sort of working on this as well 00:10:04 <itbegins> from the Zikula community side 00:10:08 <Sparks> itbegins: cool 00:10:25 <itbegins> I've been contacted by stickster_afk, I just have to write an article on the Zikula site. Likelihood of serious replies is limited, but i'll give it a go 00:10:42 <Sparks> Does anyone want to handle the Shared Open-Source Style Guide stuff? I just haven't had time to read up on it all and write about it. 00:11:50 <Sparks> #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:11:58 <Sparks> Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide 00:12:04 <Sparks> Yeah, I failed on this one too... 00:12:05 * rudi will take it but is time poor right now 00:12:26 <Sparks> rudi: The Open-Source guide? 00:12:38 <Sparks> rudi: or the BZ component 00:12:44 <rudi> Sparks -- the OS guide 00:13:01 <Sparks> #action rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:13:04 <Sparks> rudi: Thank you 00:13:12 <Sparks> I'll get on the BZ component tonight. 00:13:25 <Sparks> #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm 00:13:26 <quaid> Sparks: I'd like to help move the shared style guide stuff along, yeah 00:13:40 <Sparks> Excellent 00:14:04 <Sparks> quaid: ke4qqq was going to work on it but he's gotten real busy lately for known reasons... 00:14:18 <Sparks> and I think the more people that get on that project the better 00:14:42 <quaid> yeah, coordinate on list, sounds fine 00:14:47 <Sparks> cool 00:14:54 <Sparks> Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki 00:15:01 <Sparks> This is inprogress. 00:15:08 <Sparks> #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm 00:15:32 <Sparks> Okay, that's all from last week. Anyone have any other "old business"? 00:16:19 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:16:32 <Sparks> Well, ke4qqq isn't here with us tonight... 00:16:57 <Sparks> but we had a meeting earlier today and got a few more items straight. 00:17:35 <Sparks> J5 joined us today and will be working on some of the javascript problems we are having 00:17:48 <Sparks> so hopefully all that will be squared away soon. 00:18:11 <Sparks> I got volunteered to rebuild the Zikula instance on PT15 so that will either happen later tonight or tomorrow. 00:18:24 <Sparks> Does anyone have anything questions or ideas? 00:19:07 <itbegins> Sparks, do you know what to install etc? 00:19:23 <Sparks> itbegins: I'll be installing all the packages we have in the repo. 00:19:39 <itbegins> Sparks, ok, then run install.php 00:19:45 <Sparks> Cool, thanks. 00:19:46 <itbegins> Sparks, you'll need a database ready 00:19:55 <Sparks> ya 00:20:00 <itbegins> in fact, it would be best if you didn't install from scratch and just pointed the new files to the old DB 00:20:12 <itbegins> due to the amount of setup work I did 00:20:17 <Sparks> I could do that, too. 00:20:19 <itbegins> though it can be replicated with a bit of work 00:20:32 <Sparks> I don't plan on wipeing that out. 00:20:32 <itbegins> if you want to do that, save /config/config.php from the old system 00:20:42 <itbegins> I assume it will be puppetized anyway 00:20:48 <Sparks> eventually, yes. 00:21:01 <Sparks> This is a preparation to puppetizing everything. 00:21:12 <itbegins> THere's also FASAuth (the FAS login module) and the theme 00:21:24 <itbegins> I sent the source to ke4qqq previously 00:21:34 <ricky> Is the FAS module in git somewhere or anything like that? 00:21:39 <Sparks> I don't think those have been packaged. 00:21:46 <Sparks> But we need to get those in the repo asap. 00:21:46 <ricky> We can get it in the fedora-infrastructure git repo if you'd like 00:21:56 <ricky> Ah, they'll be RPMs - that's fine too :-) 00:22:13 <Sparks> ricky: Yeah, everything will be RPMed for ease of use 00:22:25 <ricky> Cool, we like RPMs :-) 00:23:46 <Sparks> Okay, anything else? 00:24:05 <itbegins> That's it from my side 00:24:37 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license rollout.\ 00:24:46 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:25:12 <quaid> a short bit ago I updated one of the tasks as completed 00:25:28 <Sparks> Okay, I created the above schedule. I'd appreciate feedback. 00:25:34 <itbegins> If there are no objects I will head off, haven't eaten yet... 00:25:41 <Sparks> rudi: Let's talk about your page you made. 00:25:49 * ianweller will work tomorrow on a draft announcement 00:26:25 <ianweller> #action ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement 00:26:28 <ianweller> ;) 00:26:36 <Sparks> ianweller: Thank you 00:26:54 <Sparks> rudi: So do we need to have an attribute statement? 00:27:26 <rudi> As I understand it, no we don't strictly need to. 00:27:38 <Sparks> Do we want an attribute statement? 00:27:48 <rudi> I'm in two minds about it. 00:28:32 <quaid> #link http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:28:47 <rudi> It increases transparency about how to re-use the material 00:29:24 <rudi> But I can imagine that it would also discourage reuse 00:29:56 <Sparks> I don't like the idea of being extremely strict on saying how they have to do it. 00:30:23 <quaid> it "feels" restrictive to reusers? 00:31:04 <Sparks> "You must say exactly this in the type font and size and..." 00:31:27 <quaid> I'll note that if we are strict, it's a reason for not listing every single contributor to a doc - puts a big burden on remixers -- so then it makes more sense to credit "Fedora Docs" & "Fedora L10n" 00:31:28 <Sparks> I'd rather just say, you have to attribute it to us and let them figure out what works best for them. 00:31:54 * quaid thinks about it and thinks his argument goes the other way too 00:32:09 <rudi> Sparks -- CC doesn't allow you to be *that* strict 00:32:49 <Sparks> rudi: So what would be the point of an attribution statement? 00:33:17 <rudi> Like I said, to alert people about what their obligations actually are 00:33:31 <rudi> Transparently 00:34:02 <Sparks> So spell out what the license is telling them to do 00:34:14 <rudi> Pretty much 00:34:34 <Sparks> Okay, I'm good with that. 00:34:43 <Sparks> Anyone else have an opinion? 00:35:00 <rudi> There are only two specific extra burdens that the licence allows: Specify a specific name to credit, and specify that you must link back. 00:35:15 <rudi> You'll notice that I suggest we invoke the second of those 00:35:33 <quaid> ah, that avoids the long list of names? 00:35:41 <rudi> No. 00:35:48 <rudi> That's the first 00:36:06 <rudi> Which we could also choose 00:36:15 <quaid> oic, sorry, misparsed 00:36:18 <Sparks> Okay 00:36:21 <quaid> 'specific name', gotcha 00:36:40 <Sparks> So +1 for only linking back. 00:36:52 <quaid> just for ye ole debil's advocate sake 00:37:04 <quaid> why not specify "Fedora Docs Team" and "Fedora L10n Team" 00:37:05 <rudi> Yeah; so instead of crediting the actual creators of the doc, we could specify that the re-user or remixer just credits "The Fedora Documentation Project" 00:37:08 <quaid> and avoid tracking a list of names? 00:37:17 * ianweller has to eat, bbl 00:37:17 <quaid> or "The Fedora Project" 00:37:39 <rudi> indeed 00:37:49 <jjmcd> That list of names is important to some 00:37:53 * Sparks likes "The Fedora Project" 00:38:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah, which is found on the documents themselves... but that list can be pretty long. 00:38:32 <rudi> jjmcd -- yes, which is why I shied away from suggesting that option 00:38:36 <quaid> I don't think we should burden others with our long list of names, should we continue to choose to display it. 00:38:44 <jjmcd> Yeah it can, so we really are just talking about what it says on some repuser's doc? 00:38:59 <jjmcd> re-user grrrr 00:39:06 <rudi> jjmcd -- yes 00:39:40 <jjmcd> Ahh ... I like Fedora Project, but we get some good press for our docs, I wonder whether Fedora Docs Project doesn't leverage that 00:39:56 <quaid> jjmcd: well, we ARE docs for the FP 00:40:00 <rudi> jjmcd -- don't forget L10N 00:40:05 <quaid> exactly 00:40:10 <quaid> and Design 00:40:16 <quaid> and the Publican team for the cool look 00:40:17 <quaid> and etc. 00:40:56 <quaid> One of the problems I have with all this self-branding (My Name, My SubProject's Name) is that it distracts and fractions from the greater; 00:41:10 <quaid> even if one of my purposes in Fedora is to build my name 00:41:25 <quaid> everyone else has to rely upon the RPM loginfo 00:41:27 <Sparks> WE ARE FEDORA 00:41:30 <quaid> no one gets to call their package 00:41:35 <quaid> quaid-zikula-foo.rpm 00:41:47 <Sparks> no? 00:41:57 <quaid> how about this 00:41:58 <Sparks> Is that against the package naming rules? 00:42:01 <quaid> do rpm -qi $anypackage 00:42:06 <quaid> do you see the packagers name in there? 00:42:19 * radsy wanders off... services guide has been sent to lists fo review.. 00:42:23 <quaid> why would Docs get to have a big splash with our name just because we get to control the printing press? 00:42:35 <quaid> shouldn't we put every packager's name in there that contributed to a package that we document? 00:43:00 * quaid quotes his daughter's, "It's not Fu-yair!" 00:43:21 <quaid> anyway, sorry, different debate 00:43:28 <quaid> but not a problem we should push on reusers 00:43:38 <quaid> so +1 to The Fedora Project from me 00:43:46 * quaid steps down carefully from his soap box 00:43:49 * Sparks calls for a vote 00:44:17 <Sparks> Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back 00:44:19 <Sparks> +1 00:44:29 <rudi> +1 00:44:40 <jjmcd> +1 00:44:40 <danielsmw> +1 00:44:52 <quaid> +1 00:45:32 <Sparks> #agreed Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back 00:45:40 <Sparks> Okay, anything else on the license? 00:46:05 <Sparks> #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq 00:46:11 <rudi> Give me a few minutes and I'll have that revision in place; then, if we're happy with it, I'll run it past legal 00:46:23 <Sparks> Okay... quaid and rudi will be helping ke4qqq with this. 00:46:27 <Sparks> Anything else? 00:46:30 <Sparks> rudi: Thanks 00:46:42 <Sparks> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:47:12 * Sparks moves on 00:47:19 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:47:42 <Sparks> Okay, I know people were working their tickets since last Wednesday. Good job. 00:48:05 <Sparks> I spent about a half hour "gardening" the tickets this afternoon. 00:48:32 <Sparks> If you have tickets assigned to you please make sure you work these issues... 00:48:44 <Sparks> especially if they are from a user. 00:49:52 <Sparks> If the ticket takes a while to fix I'd like everyone to make note at least monthly to show you are still working the problem. 00:50:30 * Sparks notes some people got knocked off there. 00:50:44 <Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about the BZ tickets 00:50:46 <Sparks> ? 00:51:10 <quaid> anyone want mine? 00:51:25 <Sparks> quaid: No, I think you need yours. I don't think you have enough to do. 00:51:39 <quaid> good for ya! 00:51:43 <Sparks> :) 00:52:22 <Sparks> #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki 00:52:39 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation 00:52:56 <jjmcd> wheeeeee 00:53:03 <Sparks> And jjmcd's back! 00:53:18 <Sparks> jjmcd: You'll have to read the log to see what we assigned to you while you were out. 00:53:31 <Sparks> Okay... Draft Documentation 00:53:34 <jjmcd> did u get "504825, 228728 - should talk about tomorrow" before the netsplit? 00:53:46 <Sparks> no 00:54:02 <Sparks> after the meeting? 00:54:14 <jjmcd> tomorrow's 11AM 00:54:42 <Sparks> No, can we talk about them after tonight meeting? 00:54:58 <Sparks> or do we need to talk about them now? 00:55:36 <jjmcd> Well, one is probably a longer conversation, not sure I'm ready with all the questions, the other could drag on too 00:56:08 <jjmcd> The second is are we going to ressurect the guide -- accessibility 00:56:15 <Sparks> I thought 504825 would be fairly straight forward 00:56:19 <jjmcd> and if so, in what form/format 00:56:46 <jjmcd> Well, we never really did get to a complete answer 00:57:01 <Sparks> jjmcd: What the heck... You are not authorized to access bug #228728. 00:57:02 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=228728 is not accessible. 00:57:20 * Sparks dislikes buggbot. 00:57:50 * ianweller is confused at 228728. 00:57:56 <jjmcd> we said we would produce 3 formats, but we still never asked the question what does the rpm look like, how will it be presented installed, do we drop gnome or include kde, etc etc 00:58:11 <jjmcd> let me see if i fat-fingered it 00:59:21 <jjmcd> 228729 sri 00:59:49 * Sparks is now curious what 228728 is. 01:00:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: Dang... okay, I remember now 01:00:16 <jjmcd> prolly some super secret rhel thingie 01:00:23 <Sparks> prolly 01:00:55 <Sparks> jjmcd: Okay, so you want to wait until tomorrow's meeting for this? 01:01:24 <jjmcd> Yeah, I think it is a little related to the other, so lets talk about what shows on the iso, and ignore the docs.fp.o 01:01:33 <jjmcd> which we have covered sort of 01:01:35 <rudi> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated 01:01:54 <jjmcd> does it work in internet exploder? 01:02:32 <jjmcd> I have no argument with that language 01:02:39 <Sparks> Don't know... I don't have IE anywhere. 01:02:45 <rudi> Probably not; but that's got nothing to do with the license 01:03:01 <jjmcd> yeah, I know. Just pokin' 01:03:06 <rudi> :) 01:04:26 <Sparks> Okay 01:04:29 <Sparks> Draft Documentation 01:04:34 <Sparks> it's there... 01:04:49 <Sparks> Please look at it every so often and see if you can help something along. 01:05:05 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs? 01:05:15 <Sparks> Does anyone need anything for their Guide? 01:05:40 <Sparks> #topic New Guides 01:05:47 <Sparks> Anyone have any new guide ideas? 01:06:08 <jjmcd> yeah, but not until after F12 01:06:15 <Sparks> jjmcd: What you got? 01:06:34 <jjmcd> A guide to Fedora for radio amateurs 01:06:41 <Sparks> jjmcd: Count me in 01:06:45 <jjmcd> ;-) 01:06:59 <Sparks> Anyone else? 01:07:12 <Sparks> #topic All other business 01:07:18 <Sparks> Does anyone have anything else? 01:07:33 * Sparks notes stickster arriving right at the end of the meeting 01:07:55 <jjmcd> well, these manager types 01:08:04 <Sparks> ya.. tell me about it 01:08:04 <jjmcd> you know how THEY are 01:08:23 <Sparks> ANYONE? ANYTHING? 01:08:39 <jjmcd> is there any useful docs for zikula? 01:08:56 <Sparks> I don't know 01:09:35 <jjmcd> Maybe I'll just rely on infra and not stress over it 01:09:47 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs 01:10:07 <jjmcd> zikula.org has lots, but nothing useful 01:10:41 <Sparks> Anything else? 01:11:04 <Sparks> 5 01:11:06 <Sparks> 4 01:11:09 <Sparks> 3 01:11:11 <Sparks> 2 01:11:13 <Sparks> 1 01:11:26 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! 01:11:29 <Sparks> #endmeeting
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