20:00 < Sparks> #startmeeting 20:00 < Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 20:00 < fedbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 00:03:00 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. 20:00 < fedbot> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00 < Sparks> #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:01 < radsy> oooh, that's cool 20:01 < Sparks> Roll Call 20:01 * Sparks is here 20:01 * radsy is here 20:02 * jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z 20:02 -!- perspectival [n=perspect@nat/redhat/x-89dafd55555a2d14] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- dychen_ [n=dingyich@nat/redhat/x-ac59ff8e41efadde] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- rudi [n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-e63492226f2688bc] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 * ianweller is sorta kind here maybe 20:03 * rudi is here 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: me too 20:03 < jjmcd> Japanese Game Show? 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:03 < jjmcd> ;-) 20:05 * kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves 20:05 < Sparks> sure! 20:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's get started... 20:05 < Sparks> #topic Meeting procedures 20:05 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Meeting procedures (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:06 < Sparks> You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes. Fedbot is a new bot that automates some channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well. You can read more about this bot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06 * quaid is here now 20:06 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:06 < Sparks> To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands: 20:06 < Sparks> info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be logged in the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. (nicknames are case-sensitive) 20:06 < Sparks> idea - Add an idea to the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. (Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot) 20:06 < Sparks> link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected. 20:06 < Sparks> All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea). 20:06 * Sparks pauses for any query... 20:06 < quaid> what does the result look like? 20:07 * zoglesby is here 20:07 < quaid> I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff 20:07 * nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 20:07 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know. I guess we'll see 20:07 < quaid> ah, Ok 20:07 < nirik> output looks like: http://fedorapeople.org/~kevin/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-12-17.01.html 20:07 < quaid> so it's somewhat data capture for now? we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet? 20:08 < quaid> ah! 20:08 < Sparks> Hmmm... 20:08 < Sparks> Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to. 20:08 < quaid> ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation 20:09 < nirik> not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;) 20:09 < nirik> if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on. 20:09 < Sparks> nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour. 20:09 < nirik> sounds good. ;) 20:10 < Sparks> Okay... 20:10 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:10 < Sparks> I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol) for our meetings. I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time. 20:10 < Sparks> Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions: 20:10 < Sparks> 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt 20:10 < Sparks> 2. If you have a question, type "?" 20:10 < Sparks> 3. If you need to speak, type "!" 20:10 < Sparks> 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof" 20:10 < Sparks> 5. If you agree, type "+1" 20:11 < Sparks> Any questions or comments? 20:11 < quaid> hmmm 20:11 < quaid> I won't say no personally, but 20:11 < quaid> I've found those to be most helpful where the common language 20:11 < quaid> is not the first language spoken of participants. 20:12 < quaid> so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers 20:12 < quaid> but it does interrupt flow 20:12 < quaid> <eof> 20:12 < ianweller> +1 20:12 < Sparks> Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not. 20:13 < radsy> +1 20:13 < ianweller> (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid) 20:13 < quaid> Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah 20:13 < quaid> it's a kindness 20:14 < Sparks> I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are typing something 20:15 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff? 20:16 < radsy> no 20:16 < rudi> no <eof> 20:16 < jjmcd> ^Z 20:16 < Sparks> #topic [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report 20:16 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:16 < Sparks> We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson. We had a couple of participants that remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson. 20:17 < Sparks> Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD. 20:17 < Sparks> Has everyone had a change to look over the notes? 20:17 < Sparks> And does anyone have any questions about the FAD? 20:17 < jjmcd> ? 20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:18 < jjmcd> Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken? 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not as of yet. But we should. If you want to take something then go for it. 20:19 < jjmcd> ! 20:19 < Sparks> Oh I see this going badly 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: yes? 20:19 < jjmcd> We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners 20:19 < Sparks> +1 20:20 < jjmcd> eof 20:20 < zoglesby> +1 20:20 < quaid> ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police a bit :) 20:20 < Sparks> Yes... 20:20 < Sparks> I guess that's kinda what I meant. 20:20 < Sparks> quaid: Thank you 20:20 < jjmcd> ! 20:20 < jjmcd> Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me 20:20 < Sparks> :) 20:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done. 20:21 -!- uclugLee [n=Lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21 -!- SMParrish [n=quassel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 < zoglesby> ? 20:21 < uclugLee> Greetings and salutations. 20:21 < Sparks> Yes Zach 20:22 < zoglesby> Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD? 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: Kinda... I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help. 20:22 < zoglesby> I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while 20:22 < zoglesby> ok 20:22 < zoglesby> eof 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line 20:23 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:23 < Sparks> Anything else for the FAD? 20:24 < Sparks> #topic [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] 20:24 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:24 < Sparks> jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic? 20:24 < jjmcd> Well I think we covered a lot Sunday 20:25 < jjmcd> We have some new ideas on RN's 20:25 -!- constanton [n=constant@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:25 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25 < jjmcd> Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l 20:25 < jjmcd> We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there) 20:26 < jjmcd> Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-)) 20:26 < Sparks> :) 20:26 < rudi> :D 20:26 < jjmcd> Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them 20:26 < jjmcd> I think we have some really good plans tho 20:26 < jjmcd> but we need to share them more widely before implementing 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh@fedora/sankarshan] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:27 < jjmcd> Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs 20:27 < jjmcd> eof 20:27 < Sparks> URQs? 20:27 < jjmcd> User Requirements 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh@fedora/sankarshan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27 < Sparks> Ahh 20:27 < jjmcd> <---- requirements geek 20:27 < Sparks> I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations... 20:28 < Sparks> by different users. One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while... 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes. I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit 20:28 < Sparks> the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info. 20:28 < jjmcd> but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes 20:28 < jjmcd> ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that 20:29 < Sparks> I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more. 20:29 < jjmcd> as in the example I pointed to somewhere 20:30 < jjmcd> wait 20:30 < jjmcd> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Test_of_table_RNs 20:30 < jjmcd> Did everyone get a look at that? 20:30 < jjmcd> highlight a few biggies and list all the rest 20:31 < Sparks> I didn't... Have now 20:31 < jjmcd> reduces translation and increases the data 20:31 -!- joat [n=joat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:31 < Sparks> Good combinations 20:31 < jjmcd> THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there 20:32 < jjmcd> Needless to say, the table is produced by a script 20:32 < jjmcd> Well, program 20:33 < Sparks> Cool 20:33 -!- oget is now known as oget_zzz 20:34 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion? 20:34 < jjmcd> I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list 20:34 * jjmcd will blog on ppl issues 20:34 < Sparks> Excellent. 20:34 < Sparks> Okay.... moving on... 20:35 < Sparks> #topic Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 20:35 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:35 < Sparks> quaid: Do you have an update for us? 20:35 < quaid> ok 20:35 < quaid> I may cover what was said last week, but ... 20:35 < quaid> we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans. 20:36 < quaid> and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b? 20:36 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak@nat/redhat-in/x-b83d32d96224e123] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:36 < quaid> yes, I do 20:36 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b 20:37 < Sparks> ? 20:37 < Sparks> When do you think we'll be able to change over? ETA? 20:37 < quaid> well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :) 20:37 < quaid> no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow 20:37 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing 20:38 < quaid> so, really ... no change from last week afair :/ 20:38 < Sparks> Okay... At least we are up to date. 20:39 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else? 20:39 < Sparks> #topic [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] 20:39 < kgs> thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff 20:39 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:40 < Sparks> Okay... I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda... 20:40 < Sparks> but I haven't really had time to look at it... 20:40 < Sparks> so I don't have anything to say about it, yet. 20:41 < Sparks> Would anyone like to say anything about it? 20:41 < zoglesby> ? 20:41 < Sparks> Go ahead Zach. 20:41 < zoglesby> I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time? 20:42 < Sparks> Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result. 20:42 * jjmcd had similar concerns 20:42 < Sparks> #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request. 20:43 < zoglesby> eof 20:44 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:44 < jjmcd> I can see some benefit from shared development 20:44 < jjmcd> and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic 20:44 < jjmcd> eof 20:45 < Sparks> Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting... 20:45 < Sparks> I'll try to get more information for next week. 20:45 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:45 < Sparks> #topic [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq 20:45 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:46 < Sparks> Is ke4qqq here tonight? 20:46 < Sparks> I guess not. 20:46 < zoglesby> ? 20:47 < Sparks> So I think all the modules have been packaged, now. 20:47 < zoglesby> How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left? 20:47 < zoglesby> oh i can read! 20:47 -!- kgs [n=kgs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 20:47 < Sparks> One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on. 20:48 < ianweller> there's no such thing as a "rejected" package 20:48 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left. Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ. 20:48 < ianweller> just one that isn't approved yet 20:48 < ianweller> unless it's in ForbiddenItems 20:48 * ianweller heads back out 20:48 < Sparks> Yeah... what he said. 20:48 < zoglesby> what was the license? 20:48 < Sparks> CC-BY-SA 2.5 20:49 < Sparks> Which is not compatible with GPL 20:49 < zoglesby> did anyone contact the dev yet? 20:50 < Sparks> This project is being planned to be online within 60 days. We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM. 20:50 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact. 20:51 < Sparks> Anyone have any other questions or comments? 20:51 < Sparks> #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes 20:51 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:51 < Sparks> Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while... 20:52 < Sparks> I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working 20:52 < Sparks> this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot 20:52 < Sparks> loose to do some of our work for us. 20:53 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments? 20:54 < Sparks> #topic Calendar 20:54 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Calendar (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:54 < Sparks> Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12. 20:55 < Sparks> I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution... 20:55 < Sparks> until we get our calendaring solution. 20:56 < Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12.ics 20:56 < zoglesby> +1 20:56 < poelcat> easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with: 20:56 < poelcat> 1) name of task (using action words/verbs) 20:56 < poelcat> 2) start date 20:56 < poelcat> 3) how many days it takes 20:56 < poelcat> 4) dependency on other tasks 20:57 < Sparks> Cool! 20:57 < Sparks> anyone have any questions or comments? 20:57 < Sparks> Thanks poelcat 20:57 * poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart 20:57 < poelcat> will target fri or monday 20:58 < Sparks> poelcat: That will be great. 20:58 < Sparks> #topic All other business 20:58 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:58 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour... Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? 20:58 < radsy> ! 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Go ahead 20:59 < radsy> #link http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/html-single/#chap-Managing_Confined_Services-Squid_Caching_Proxy is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look 20:59 < radsy> eof 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Very cool. Do you need any additional resources? 20:59 < radsy> no 20:59 -!- phunster [n=phunster@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?"] 21:00 < Sparks> Okay, anyone else? 21:00 < perspectival> I think I'll take this time to speak up 21:00 < Sparks> perspectival: Go ahead 21:01 < perspectival> I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12 21:01 < perspectival> there is a new branch in svn 21:01 < perspectival> unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it 21:02 < quaid> howdy 21:02 < Sparks> perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide? 21:02 < perspectival> So Greetings! 21:02 < perspectival> the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: Excellent! Do you need any resources? 21:03 < perspectival> I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind 21:03 < perspectival> still figuring out the way forward ;-) 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: No problem! 21:03 < perspectival> I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though 21:03 < perspectival> am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc. 21:04 < perspectival> <eof for now> 21:04 -!- phunster [n=lanny@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:04 < Sparks> Okay. 21:04 < Sparks> Anyone else? 21:05 < Sparks> Okay, I'm calling it a night then... 21:05 < Sparks> 5 21:06 < Sparks> 4 21:06 < Sparks> 3 21:06 < Sparks> 2 21:06 < Sparks> 1 21:06 < Sparks> #endmeeting 21:06 < fedbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 01:08:31 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . 21:06 < fedbot> Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.html 21:06 < fedbot> Log: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.log.html
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