On Sun, 2009-06-14 at 19:28 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > During the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after the SouthEast LinuxFest > (SELF) we discussed several topics concerning the Fedora 11 release. > The complete day's notes are available on the wiki[1] for your review. > I will be pasting from the wiki into these messages in order to > hopefully begin some discussion on how we can make our next release much > better. I'll post this initial post and then provide comments within. > I encourage all Docs Project members provide their comments as well. > > What went wrong > > Changing Release Notes data > * Two days before F11 was released, the release notes beats on wiki were > still changing This frustrated me when a few days before the F11 release we were still changing the release notes. I know that moving the information from the wiki to DocBook may or may not be a trivial event, depending on the amount of bits that need to transition over, but all the work that goes into "fixing" the pot files and then all the translators that have to re-translate every change can get a bit labor intensive. I think we need to implement a firmer freeze point and not accept changes past a certain point. If we make this announcement early then maybe we won't have problems. > * Audio change > * Networking issue > * Expect full-timers to include info > > Secret cabal-driven freezes that aren't communicated > * (leading to people not knowing about freezes occurring and when RN > data needed.) > * this is also a comms problem on our part. Yeah, I should be making more/better/broader-reaching announcements to the Fedora Community. > > Too many rogue documents. I started a list[1] of rogue documents that I discovered by looking through all BZ tickets. As I work through this list I'll update the wiki and if I find more documents out there I'll include them there. > > Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building > the rpm > * We need to be able to push packages ourselves (i.e. need instructions, > guidelines, etc.) > * Not enough packagers in Docs > * Only f13 and stickster know how to push RNs -- need more > co-maintainers Today, at FAD@SELF, we went over packaging. It is hoped that more members will be able to package and will be able to review and approve packages in the future. > > Could use more clarity understanding on what is implied by freezes, > trans, etc Yeah, this is the same communication that I commented earlier that I need to improve on. > > Need more interaction with L10n I plan on attending more meeting of all the projects that we interact with. All members should do this. Maybe have liaisons "assigned" to go to other projects. > > Bugs not being filled out in timely manner > * Many RN bugs arrive at the last minute that were known early on > -indeed (SEE ABOVE) > > Need to centralize where bugs are filed (too many choices -- BZ, Trac > instances...) > * BZ even has too many subchoices (components, etc.) I'm not going to say that you have to use BZ or Trac to manage your bugs but whichever you use you should publicize your choice well. Bugzilla is the standard, however, and if you are on the fence I'd recommend using BZ. If you want your product in BZ please let me know. > > Poor notations on where/how bugs/issues should be filed > > Wiki search SUCKS BIG TIME!! I think Ian has this one on his list to come up with a solution. > > No good documentation on moving things from wiki to DocBook/Publican > stores After talking with Paul on Saturday I have an idea that I'll try to put together on the wiki later this week. > > Could use more consistency in wiki markup > > Need better documentation on what we want to use from DocBook markup > > No good process for dealing with orphan documents I think as long as the documents are properly marked as appropriate for a certain release or dated properly then I feel they can exist in the wild without great concern. If we know it's there then maybe someone will provide an update. > > RN documents are not all in one place (about-fedora, readme's, etc.) Can we combine or eliminate some of these pieces? > > Lack of understanding of release schedule process > > Publican and Fedora/GNOME lang codes not consistent > * Not at all clear how login lang selected is used I think we figured out that with the new Transfex software that this is a moot point. > > Translators having too much work. > > Release notes are ill-defined > * Too long for normal users to read > * Beats have inconsistent levels of content > * Need some separation I'll let Paul comment on this as he had a very good idea today. > > We don't know anything about visit statistics for docs.fp.o https://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs.fedoraproject.org/ > > We need a more rigorous freeze on wiki release note beats > * Notes to f-docs-l, f-trans-l f-dev-l several times before each > milestone > > BZ URL ulink default in Publican is unhelpful at best The default link in Publican points to BZ. Guide owners should update this link to be specific to their component and product in BZ. If you need help with this please let me know and I'll be happy to help you with this. > > Not clear if remaining (obsolete? unmaintained?) docs need conversion to > Publican (strikes me as part of undefined orphan process) > > docs.fp.o site sucks (Mo knows) > * Need solution for people to install a doc just for their lang, in > their format > * No CMS, no easy publishing, high barrier to participation > * No real indexing... The Zikula CMS solution will solve this problem. > > > What went right > > DOCS PEOPLE ROCK Things went so smoothly during the F11 release, in spite of the list of "things that went wrong" above, BECAUSE of our awesome people! Everyone did a fantastic job and made my job easy! Thank you! > > Many more docs/guides available than ever before!! (we rocked!) I've had many comments on this. We did an awesome job getting information out to the masses. > > The wiki didn't asplode, but should have. (yay!) > > Everything seemed a lot more organized this release > + Packaging is easier than it sounds > + The install guide is awesome > ++ Some folks really rolled up their sleeves and helped - zoglesby, > laubersm, rudi > > much better collaboration this release cycle > > felt far less rushed than F10 > > stickster and quaid got out of the way and Sparks got run over And I'm good with getting run over (I wrote that last part). I see myself pointing people in a direction and letting them run. I don't want to be at the front of the group pulling people along (if that's even possible with this group). I'll push if I need to but for the most part contributors in this group work very hard to get the work done. > > Brisbane folks represented, yo The folks in Brisbane really stepped up and worked hard to get contribute to the guides. Thanks guys! > > Red Hat relicensed guide material in a way where we can generate > community presence around them > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Documentation_Meeting_2009_06_14 > > Thanks, > Eric I didn't provide comments on everything but I hope other Docs Project contributors will. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table Thanks, Eric -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
