my poor beloved! Jess On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:00 AM, <fedora-docs-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Send fedora-docs-list mailing list submissions to > fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > fedora-docs-list-request@xxxxxxxxxx > > You can reach the person managing the list at > fedora-docs-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxx > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of fedora-docs-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Self-Introduction (Mike Danko) > 2. Re: Self-Introduction (Basil Mohamed Gohar) > 3. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Rui Gouveia) > 4. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Rui Gouveia) > 5. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Domingo Becker) > 6. Release Notes entry for the moin package (Ville-Pekka Vainio) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:35:39 -0400 > From: Mike Danko <mike@xxxxxxxx> > Subject: Self-Introduction > To: fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx > Message-ID: <1239870939.14027.15.camel@skrelnick> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Hello all, > > I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: > > I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems > at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering > RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with > little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm > working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day) > and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public > eye. > > I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify > my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I > do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly > purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally > come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for. > > I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm > hoping to help in any way I can. > > - Mike > > > mike@skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19 > pub 1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] > Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878 CA6D 6659 1093 517F > 2C19 > uid Mike Danko <mike@xxxxxxxx> > sub 2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:13:50 +0800 > From: Basil Mohamed Gohar <abu_hurayrah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Self-Introduction > To: For participants of the Documentation Project > <fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: <49E6F6CE.8020108@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 04/16/2009 04:35 PM, Mike Danko wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: >> >> I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems >> at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering >> RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with >> little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm >> working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day) >> and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public >> eye. >> >> I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify >> my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I >> do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly >> purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally >> come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for. >> >> I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm >> hoping to help in any way I can. >> >> - Mike >> >> >> mike@skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19 >> pub 1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] >> Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878 CA6D 6659 1093 517F >> 2C19 >> uid Mike Danko<mike@xxxxxxxx> >> sub 2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] >> >> >> > Welcome, Mike! Nice to see you getting more involved. Maybe, whenever > I get back to Columbus, we can have a mini Docs meetup. :D > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:07:44 +0100 > From: Rui Gouveia <rui.gouveia@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > To: piotrdrag@xxxxxxxxx, Fedora Translation Project List > <fedora-trans-list@xxxxxxxxxx> > Cc: fedora-docs-list <fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: <49E0DC70.4000203@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi, > > I personally completely agree. > Also, the Portuguese team decided, since the release notes is so big, > that it's better to leave it 100% untranslated than just small pieces. > > Rui Gouveia > > Piotr Drąg escreveu: >> Paul W. Frields pisze: >>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >>> >> >> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >> community. >> >> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to >> collaborate and maintain release notes. >> >> Just my 2 cents, >> > > -- > Rui Gouveia > Sócio gerente > > GlobalTek - Soluções Informáticas, Lda. > Rua Augusto Luso, 121 > 4050-073 Porto > > T: +351 938 391 608 > W: www.globaltek.pt > > AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE > > Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela são confidenciais e > destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem são > dirigidos. Se não é o destinatário da mensagem ou a pessoa responsável > pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinatário, fica informado de > que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utilização, > distribuição, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revelação a outrem, > impressão, ou cópia desta mensagem é expressamente proibido. Se > recebeu esta mensagem por engano, deverá destrui-la, eliminá-la do > sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda. A GlobalTek Lda > utiliza software anti-vírus, no entanto, não obstante terem sido > tomadas todas as precauções, não pode garantir que a mensagem e seus > anexos não contêm vírus. É, assim, da responsabilidade do destinatário > assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos são submetidos a detector de > vírus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens > transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas, > perdidas, destruídas ou chegarem ao destino com atraso. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 259 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090411/73b4e890/signature.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:12:16 +0100 > From: Rui Gouveia <rui.gouveia@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > To: fedora-trans-list@xxxxxxxxxx, fedora-docs-list > <fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: <49E0DD80.7010403@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > +1 > > Paul W. Frields escreveu: >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Piotr Drąg wrote: >> >>> Paul W. Frields pisze: >>> >>>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >>>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >>>> >>>> >>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >>> community. >>> >>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >>> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to >>> collaborate and maintain release notes. >>> >> >> I tend to agree with you, Piotr. I think that SIG pages on the wiki >> are more appropriate for explanations of esoteric packages, and that >> the release notes should feature information that is going to be >> important (1) to general users, and (2) for migrating from one release >> to another. So for example, warning people of an important change in >> a database that requires action on their part is appropriate, while >> saying "we now have package X" is not. That's my opinion, at least. >> >> The people who are editing release notes need to be aware of the needs >> of translators, and make sure that the English used in the release >> notes is simple enough to be understood by all readers, and translated >> by all translators. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -- >> Fedora-trans-list mailing list >> Fedora-trans-list@xxxxxxxxxx >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > > -- > Rui Gouveia > Sócio gerente > > GlobalTek - Soluções Informáticas, Lda. > Rua Augusto Luso, 121 > 4050-073 Porto > > T: +351 938 391 608 > W: www.globaltek.pt > > AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE > > Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela são confidenciais e > destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem são > dirigidos. Se não é o destinatário da mensagem ou a pessoa responsável > pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinatário, fica informado de > que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utilização, > distribuição, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revelação a outrem, > impressão, ou cópia desta mensagem é expressamente proibido. Se > recebeu esta mensagem por engano, deverá destrui-la, eliminá-la do > sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda. A GlobalTek Lda > utiliza software anti-vírus, no entanto, não obstante terem sido > tomadas todas as precauções, não pode garantir que a mensagem e seus > anexos não contêm vírus. É, assim, da responsabilidade do destinatário > assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos são submetidos a detector de > vírus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens > transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas, > perdidas, destruídas ou chegarem ao destino com atraso. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 259 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090411/6eeb3bb5/signature.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:36:26 -0300 > From: Domingo Becker <domingobecker@xxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > To: Fedora Translation Project List <fedora-trans-list@xxxxxxxxxx>, > fedora-docs-list <fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx> > Message-ID: > <4818cd80904111136w639df187y74347956b8e1fcfb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >>> community. > > I don't agree. > I think it's necessary to document those changes, in a summary at least. > Migration information is important too. > If there are phrases the team doesn't understand, should be left in > English. Someone will surely file a bug with the correct translation. > It encourages other people to get involved. > >>> >>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >>> users!), resulting in wider audience. > > Probably. > But then, where will that information go? the wiki? > It should be somewhere! It's useful. > >>> It would be also easier to >>> collaborate and maintain release notes. > > I guess we have so many untranslated string because of the change to > publican. It looks like release notes has been rewritten entirely. > > +1 to the untranslated section mark. > Translations should be used even if they are 30%. > I usually translate first the information useful for the majority of > users, then the rest. > > But now, is release notes read by all new users? > I don't think so. But it doesn't make it less important. > It should be read by users upgrading from previous releases, and I > think anaconda advices to do so. > > Having the release notes this way we have now, makes users take > conscience of how big the changes are since the last release, no more > than 6 months ago. You don't see this amount of improvements in other > OSs. > > Maybe a summary, but please keep up the good quality it used to have. > Just my 2 cents. > > Domingo Becker (es) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:03:42 +0300 > From: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Release Notes entry for the moin package > To: fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx > Message-ID: <1239887022.3111.26.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi Docs people, > > I recently took over as the moin package maintainer and I've updated it > to 1.8.2 in F11, which is quite a bump from 1.6.3 in F-10 and it might > need an entry in the Release Notes. > > Here's a list of things that might be worth mentioning, could someone > from the Docs team help make this a real release note? :) > > - Lots of changes, users should start by going > through /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/CHANGES > > - Upstream documentation on how to update is > in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/UPDATE.html > > - Instructions on how to migrate the data directory are > in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README.migration - this file talks about > using the www-data user for running the migration, in Fedora there is > no such user, probably the best option is to run the script as root > and then do a chown -R apache:apache for the data directory > afterwards. > > - The documentation on how to set up moin in Fedora is updated, it's > at /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README-rpm > > - Users should make sure they update the configuration files, such as > wikiconfig.py, the 'server driver', such as moin.cgi, the underlay > directory and possibly the htdocs directory for their wiki instance. > > > -- > Ville-Pekka Vainio > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > End of fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19 > ************************************************ > -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
