-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 14:00 < Sparks> <meeting id="Docs team"> 14:00 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting 14:00 * stickster here 14:00 * quaid is 50% here as [[User:Kwade|Karsten 'quaid' Wade]] 14:00 * jjmcd here 14:00 * Sparks here 14:00 * ke4qqq is here 14:01 < Sparks> Meeting agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_28_January_2008 14:01 -!- zk-Simon [n=public@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:01 * laubersm here 14:02 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on leadership (re)fresh 14:02 < Sparks> Okay, I'm going to turn this over to quaid before he has to leave 14:02 -!- DemonJester [n=DemonJes@fedora/DemonJester] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:02 < quaid> yeah, I'm in a meeting call right now 14:02 < quaid> and have 1/2 attention 14:02 -!- jsmith-lunch [n=nnnjsmit@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:02 < quaid> so will be fast as I can 14:02 < quaid> first, thanks Sparks for taking the meeting today. 14:02 -!- jsmith-lunch is now known as jsmith 14:03 -!- kulll_ [n=kulll@xxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 14:03 < quaid> second, it's clear on the list to me that we can reach consensus on leadership stuff with a scheme I have in mind. 14:03 < quaid> 1. I'd like to appoint Sparks to be Docs Lead for the (rest of) F11; his willingness and coordinating/organizing are clear all ready, and he is interested and able. 14:04 < quaid> 2. We can then have an election just after F11, including deciding how long we want a leader to server (one or two releases) 14:04 < quaid> 3. There are a *ton* of you who are already leaders here and could clearly or likely lead this project; that is rather unusual, and awe inspiring to me. 14:05 < quaid> in fact, more current contributors are capable of leading this team for a release than not, which is cool. 14:05 < quaid> 4. Then I can be a good Lt., help the transition, and help with making future leadership easier, as well as future contributing (hand-in-hand problem) 14:05 < quaid> so, even if I haven't talked with you about being in the smaller group of those who actively lead ... 14:06 < quaid> I will :) 14:06 < jsmith> +1 on the nomination 14:06 < quaid> and I'll encourage each of you to continue in that mode - -- show while doing 14:06 < Sparks> +1 on term limits :) 14:06 < quaid> :D 14:06 < stickster> +1 on the nomination 14:06 * laubersm tags Sparks 14:06 < jjmcd> +1 14:06 < ke4qqq> +1 for sparks 14:07 -!- John5342 [n=john5342@fedora/John5342] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:07 * stickster will be around to be a Lt. Lt. too 14:07 < quaid> I'd also especially like to ask you all to really step up in helping make Sparks successful 14:07 < stickster> +2. 14:07 < quaid> (not that you aren't ...) 14:07 < quaid> which means e.g. more 6s fun from jjmcd and jsmith :) 14:07 -!- baard1973 [n=baard197@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:07 < Sparks> :) 14:07 < jjmcd> :-) 14:07 < quaid> in case it's not obvious, it's the mix of skills, personality, and hard work ethics that makes the team work best. 14:08 < quaid> and this is truly the strongest group of docs contributors that Fedora has yet seen, IMNSHO. 14:08 < quaid> one remaining item is the F11 release notes; I'm concerned about overloading Sparks 14:08 < quaid> and would suggest we consider taking ryanlerch up on his offer; 14:08 * jsmith puts away his (non-existant) campaign posters and buckles down for a great release (and release-notes!) for F11 14:08 < quaid> he just got off a big relnotes release and is ready to go and available, afaict 14:09 < Sparks> +1 to ryanlerch 14:09 < quaid> that would help e.g. jjmcd get more comfortable with how the relnotes run, so he can do it for F12 14:09 < ke4qqq> +1 14:09 < jsmith> +1 to ryanlerch as well 14:09 < jsmith> +1 to jjmcd being his shadow 14:09 < jjmcd> Sounds good to me 14:09 < laubersm> +1 14:10 < quaid> nice! 14:10 * quaid loves the smell of consensus in the morning ... 14:10 < quaid> it's the smell of community! 14:10 < jsmith> quaid: (You're on a roll... no disagreement from anyone!) 14:10 < stickster> I think the Relnotes definitely need a separate Someone. +1. 14:10 < quaid> are there any lagging leadership issues? 14:10 < jjmcd> I notice ryanlerch isn't here to defend himself 14:10 < quaid> I'll do a formal email to the list after the meeting, etc. 14:10 < quaid> jjmcd: heh 14:10 < ke4qqq> someone bring up the controversial stuff before we slip out of consensus :) 14:10 < quaid> jjmcd: I sent him email asking him to come by #fedora-docs this afternoon to discuss 14:10 < quaid> after I sort-of blew him off on list trying to keep the balance. 14:11 < Sparks> Anymore discussion? 14:11 < quaid> ok, I'm done then; and would love to see everyone figure out the CMS discussion _without_ having to explain my own thinking again; that's getting boring to y'all 14:12 * jjmcd is beginning to develop an opinion on that, that's dangerous 14:12 * zk-Simon is here in case of questions 14:12 < Sparks> Okay, well, thanks for the support and as my first order of business... 14:12 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - CMS Plan 14:12 < Sparks> I'll change the topic. 14:12 < stickster> heh 14:12 < stickster> +1! The crowd goes wild! 14:12 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:13 < Sparks> So today has been an interesting day for CMS discussions. 14:13 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:13 < Sparks> Was anyone not around #f-docs for the conversation? 14:13 * jjmcd caught much of it, think I came in the middle, but I figured out hwere it eas headed 14:14 < stickster> It was full of vim and vinegar 14:14 * laubersm thinks "which one?" and runs 14:14 < stickster> Especially since I know jsmith likes vim. 14:14 < jjmcd> ewwwww 14:14 < Sparks> jsmith: I'd like to get your input about the CMS solution discussion, please. 14:14 < stickster> No one is full of Emacs and vinegar, after all. 14:14 < jsmith> stickster: Amen! 14:14 < quaid> stickster: only a pickle 14:14 < stickster> quaid: Oho! You win, good sirrah. 14:15 < jsmith> Sparks: I'm on the phone right this second, but I'm now in general agreement with the proposals at hand. 14:15 -!- DemonJes1er [n=DemonJes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Connection timed out] 14:15 < Sparks> Okay, does anyone have any concerns about standing up a CMS solution? 14:15 < ke4qqq> so at the risk of pushing ahead - I think we should go with Zikula - they are the only planA solution 14:16 < ke4qqq> and they seem to meet the requirements technically 14:16 < Sparks> ke4qqq: I know Word Press was interviewed. I haven't felt much energy from them, though. 14:16 < jjmcd> We got something that seems to meet the reqts and someone willing to chop off the chicken's head, so where's the problem 14:16 < ke4qqq> and I think if we decide to press ahead that I am the constraint 14:16 < ke4qqq> jjmcd: exactly! 14:16 < stickster> Has anyone asked the responsible parties for Legal, PackagingGuidelines, etc. about their thoughts? Not sure that's a requirement. 14:16 < zk-Simon> If anyone has reservations, I would like to hear them. Either to put them straight or alternatively to make sure I put specific focus on their concerns as we move forward 14:16 < Sparks> stickster: Good point. 14:17 < quaid> their requirement was to not have to work *harder* 14:17 < quaid> and spot said he trusted us to not mess them up, iirc 14:17 < Sparks> How about this, let's vote on Zikula pending no major problems from the other areas. 14:17 < quaid> zikula++ 14:17 < stickster> Which I think we can guarantee. Zikula has editing capabilities on par with MW> 14:17 < ke4qqq> yep 14:18 < ke4qqq> +1 for zikula 14:18 < laubersm> +1 for taking the next step 14:18 < Sparks> +1 for Zikula 14:18 < jjmcd> + 14:19 < stickster> +1 14:19 < zk-Simon> Ok, well that seems positive 14:19 < Sparks> That sounds like a pass to me. 14:19 < zk-Simon> Next step? What do you want from me? 14:20 < Sparks> I'll write it up this afternoon and make sure we have the support from others. 14:20 < ke4qqq> next step is packaging iirc, and I think that is still on my plate 14:20 -!- itamarjp [n=itamar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:20 < Sparks> zk-Simon: If you don't mind being on hand today and tomorrow for any questions from other groups. 14:20 * ke4qqq is fail for not already having it done 14:20 < zk-Simon> It just so happens we have a RPM build for Zikula as of a couple of days ago 14:20 < Sparks> Yes, packaging is high priority 14:20 < ke4qqq> zk-Simon: Link? 14:20 < jjmcd> Ohhh, that was my only concern, would be nice to see it packaged 14:20 -!- SmootherFrOgZ [n=Xavier@fedora/SmootherFrOgZ] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:21 < ke4qqq> yeah for us to use it, it must live in fedora 14:21 < quaid> we should be able to start playing on the publictest instance even without the package 14:21 < zk-Simon> Sparks: No link, I'd ahve to upload it somewhere (in my email inbox I think) 14:21 -!- mizmo [n=duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:21 < Sparks> zk-Simon: Get with ke4qqq on that. 14:21 -!- itamarjp [n=itamar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:21 < quaid> so for zk-Simon that means applying for sysadmin and sysadmin-test with anyone from zikula.org who is helping 14:21 < ke4qqq> zk-Simon: SRPM and spec file please - feel free to send it to the list or me privately 14:21 < quaid> zk-Simon: those are FAS groups 14:22 < quaid> mmcgrath can tell us if he wants to make a new sysadmin-cms ... 14:22 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Can you help zk-Simon with getting FAS accounts squared away? 14:22 < zk-Simon> ok. Have to hold my hand a little here since I don't know your processess 14:22 < ke4qqq> Sparks: yep - we'll take care of it after the meeting 14:22 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Thank you 14:22 < ke4qqq> np 14:23 < Sparks> Anything else on the CMS? 14:23 < zk-Simon> I'll be around for as long as necessary tomorrow, but I'm out for a couple of hours at least from the end of the meeting 14:23 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:24 * stickster is happy to see such verve and vigor in the Docs meeting again :-) 14:24 < ke4qqq> zk-Simon: ok - I am around quite a bit, just ping me when you have some time 14:24 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes document 14:25 < Sparks> I know we are going to have to do some switching around on this... 14:25 < Sparks> I know we need beat writers for various subjects. 14:26 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions on this? I should be better prepared next week. 14:26 < ke4qqq> do we have a list of what beats have no writers? 14:26 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Yes... 14:26 * Sparks goes hunting for the link 14:26 < Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats 14:27 < Sparks> All 48 of them (plus or minus) 14:27 < Sparks> The page still needs some cleaning up. 14:27 < Sparks> I sent out an email to everyone that was listed from F10. If they were continueing on then they removed the "*" from beside their name. 14:27 < ke4qqq> so - can we delegate that out 'beat writer hunting' now? 14:28 < Sparks> But there are a lot of open spots that could use some love 14:28 < Sparks> ke4qqq: sure 14:28 < stickster> Makes sense to move on to finding new writers. 14:28 < Sparks> stickster: :1 14:28 < Sparks> +1 14:28 < Sparks> Yeah, we are WAY behind on this. 14:29 < stickster> It's not that bad, I don't think 14:29 < stickster> But it wouldn't hurt to start contacting people responsible for packages that are central to the beat 14:29 < Sparks> We have had quite a few people sign up for slots in the past week which is really good. 14:29 < stickster> i.e. fedora-kernel-list, or the virt list, or... 14:29 < stickster> Typically those developers do start devoting more time post-Beta 14:29 < Sparks> stickster: Absolutely. 14:30 < stickster> But it's incumbent upon us to... keep them from forgetting ;-) 14:30 < jjmcd> Some of the major devtools came up as new beats. Not sure that e.g. Emacs needs its own beat, but most of those I expect to do 14:30 < stickster> jjmcd: They're coming up as new beats because they're transcluded pages 14:31 < jjmcd> ahhh yeah, you mentioned how you like that 14:31 * stickster loathes transcludes in the relnotes beats... headaches! 14:31 < Sparks> yeah 14:31 < stickster> I think it would be sensible to provide a key for people to know where to file their notes on "Package XYZ" 14:31 < jjmcd> Some may make sense, tho. The Haskell group seems pretty active, actually, might be good to recruit someone there 14:31 < stickster> Then kill the transcludes 14:32 < quaid> +1 to death of transcludes 14:32 < Sparks> +1 14:32 < quaid> they aren't needed 14:32 < stickster> Every time we try to be clever, we generally out-clever ourselves :-D 14:32 < quaid> you said it! 14:33 < danielsmw> lol 14:33 < stickster> If Ian had been around he'd have slapped sense into us 14:33 < Sparks> Well, he can now 14:33 < ke4qqq> I think he actually prefers setting people on fire :) 14:33 < quaid> with a sharp fork to the eyes first 14:33 < Sparks> jjmcd: Do you want to start beating the drum on the... beats? 14:34 < jjmcd> Sure 'nuff 14:34 -!- cassmodiah [n=cass@fedora/cassmodiah] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:34 < Sparks> jjmcd: Okay, let me know if you need anything. Targetting the groups that aren't represented would be great. 14:34 < Sparks> jjmcd: And maybe something up on planet. 14:34 -!- petreu [n=peter@fedora/petreu] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 14:34 * jjmcd gotta get hooked up there yet 14:35 < Sparks> jjmcd: I can put something up there in the mean time. :) 14:35 < jjmcd> cool 14:35 < Sparks> Anything else? 14:35 < ke4qqq> jjmcd: lets work on that after the meeting 14:36 < ke4qqq> I owe work for that to danielsmw as well 14:36 < jjmcd> roger that 14:37 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - DocsProject page changes 14:37 < Sparks> ianweller is working with G_work to get the wikibot turned loose on the Docs Pages. 14:37 < danielsmw> ke4qqq: I'll join in after this then 14:37 < stickster> sweet 14:38 < Sparks> Apparently there are some problems with the bot so G_work is working on that. 14:38 < Sparks> I'll let ianweller talk about it later. 14:38 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - John Poelstra's schedule 14:39 < Sparks> ke4qqq: What'd did you come up with from the conference call? 14:40 < ke4qqq> so releng is going to handle alpha announcement 14:40 < ke4qqq> and keep it 14:40 < ke4qqq> 'permanently' 14:40 < ke4qqq> we are taking Beta and GA release announcements 14:40 < quaid> sweet 14:41 < Sparks> ke4qqq: That works. 14:41 < Sparks> Did everyone get a chance to look at the schedule that John sent out? 14:41 < ke4qqq> essentially eof from me - I have more details from the call - but none that relate to docs project. 14:42 -!- petreu [n=peter@fedora/petreu] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:42 < stickster> ke4qqq: Probably worth sending something to the f-docs-list to memorialize 14:42 < Sparks> +1 14:42 < jjmcd> look at, yes; digest, no 14:42 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah 14:42 < stickster> I'll take the action item to get Poelstra to add the appropriate actions to the docs tasks list 14:42 < Sparks> stickster: Thank you 14:42 * jsmith stumbles back from a phone conference 14:43 < laubersm> what jjmcd said 14:43 < jsmith> (Silly $dayjob... gotta get Fedora or Red Hat to hire me) 14:43 < ke4qqq> lol 14:43 < Sparks> jsmith: Yeah, me too. 14:43 < jjmcd> That whole working for a living thing really sucks,doesn't it 14:43 < Sparks> Okay, lets take the week to digest what needs to be done and come back to it next week 14:44 < jsmith> jjmcd: I don't mind working... it's the politics that grate on my nerves 14:44 * jjmcd remembers that, but bing a full-time bum is a much sweeter gig 14:44 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Go over task table http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Task_table 14:44 * quaid done with his meeting 14:44 < quaid> that table is a bit out of date, sorry :) 14:44 < laubersm> I was noticing that :) 14:45 < Sparks> It looks like we need to garden our table! 14:45 < quaid> heh 14:46 < quaid> I can edit and make changes while we discuss the updates, if you'd like 14:46 < quaid> (if you aren't already someone) 14:46 < jjmcd> seems like we have a bunch of projects that need to be transcluded in that list 14:46 < quaid> items missing from there? yes 14:48 * quaid edits the page now 14:48 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian@fedora/lfoppiano] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:49 < stickster> Yay table gardening :-) 14:49 < jjmcd> Looks like some things are dealt with, some need more detail. e.g. now that we have a CMS strategy we need to lay out the steps. 14:49 < quaid> for the first item, we are waiting on page renaming, right? 14:49 < stickster> more or less, I suppose. 14:50 < quaid> how do we feel about our toolchain now? 14:50 < quaid> is that still an open task? 14:50 -!- fab__ [n=bellet@xxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:51 < jjmcd> I suspect it will evolve post-CMS, wonder whether we should stress over it before 14:51 < ke4qqq> I thought our focus was to move to publican? 14:51 < quaid> s 14:51 < ke4qqq> independent of any cms 14:51 < quaid> yes 14:51 < jjmcd> I assume so 14:51 < quaid> but fedora-doc-utils still has some purpose, etc. 14:52 < quaid> how about jsmith, stickster, and I discuss next chance on IRC to see where that is and what needs to be done? 14:52 < jjmcd> But what is the point of CMS if it doesn't help our processes? Not sure we know exactly HOW yet 14:52 < quaid> this toolchain stuff is primarily the work that happens just before the CMS pulls the content in. 14:52 < quaid> but it's possible there will be stuff to *add* to the toolchain as part of the CMS work. 14:53 < jjmcd> Yes, I gather that. I suspect, tho, some things will want to change 14:53 < jjmcd> Yeah, maybe add, maybe subtract 14:53 < quaid> ok, I marked it as ongoing 14:53 < quaid> and that the three principals for that task will talk and decide what up 14:54 < jsmith> Sounds like a plan 14:54 < quaid> publican migration ... next chance I might work on that during FAD at SCaLE 7x? 14:54 < quaid> there is a branch for migrating the IG 14:54 < stickster> I think the f-d-u is a pet project only at this point, so yeah, we'll discuss that offline 14:54 < quaid> jsmith: have you looked at that? 14:54 < stickster> ("offline" == "not here, probably online") 14:54 < jsmith> quaid: Got started at FudCON, then ran into problems, haven't picked it back up yet 14:55 < jsmith> quaid: May have some time next week, while I'm playing 'Booth Babe' at a conference in Miami 14:55 < stickster> jsmith: Apparently ryanlerch did a migration of our release notes that he claims was fairly painles 14:55 < stickster> *painless, even 14:55 < stickster> I asked him to locate and augment our guidance for doing that procedure on the wiki 14:55 < ke4qqq> stickster: did he document the process? 14:55 < jsmith> stickster: That's great to hear! 14:55 < stickster> ke4qqq: q.v. ^^ 14:56 < quaid> ok, next item 14:56 < quaid> team per document is completed. 14:56 < quaid> right? 14:56 < ke4qqq> well at least lead 14:57 < jjmcd> For some, like RL, recruiting the team will be an ongoing thing, and for all probably some need 14:57 < quaid> ok, lead writer id'd still working on team 14:57 < quaid> jjmcd: yep, I just put 'ongoing' as deadline :) 14:58 -!- zoglesby [n=zoglesby@fsf/member/zoglesby] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:58 < quaid> ok I'll put the CMS status under that task 14:58 -!- CheekyBoinc [n=CheekyBo@fedora/CheekyBoinc] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:59 < Sparks> 1 minute warning 14:59 < quaid> the future of fedora docs stuff is resolved; that was all about 'get a leader who isn't stale in the head' 14:59 < quaid> the rest is fine 14:59 < stickster> The biggest issue before the group has been cleared, that's a good meeting in my bookk. 14:59 * quaid thinks that is the task list done 14:59 < stickster> Sparks: We're here for you, and know you'll do a good job. 14:59 < quaid> stickster: heck, we touched upon everything to boot! 14:59 < Sparks> :) 14:59 < Sparks> stickster: thanks. 15:00 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else? 15:00 < quaid> let's call it :0 15:00 < Sparks> 5 15:00 < laubersm> Thanks Sparks!!!! 15:00 < Sparks> 4 15:00 < Sparks> 3 15:00 < Sparks> 2 15:00 < Sparks> 1 15:00 < Sparks> Thanks folks! 15:00 < jjmcd> And the crowd roars 15:00 < Sparks> </meeting> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmA4hYACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHIdwCguvlOi962BYRHUjqvJoxpGkjr PeQAnR4ObH87PyxAIqVSMxM5gbPlhU5v =3blW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
