-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 14:01 < quaid> <meeting id="Docs team"> 14:01 * quaid still hoping for zodbot meeting logging :) 14:02 < Sparks> +1 14:02 < quaid> le roll call? 14:02 * Sparks is present 14:02 -!- John5342 [n=john5342@fedora/John5342] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:03 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_14_January_2008 FUDCon results 14:03 < quaid> I'm here too 14:03 * quaid makes a sound of crickets chirping 14:04 < quaid> ok then 14:04 < Sparks> Where is everyone? 14:04 < quaid> refering to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 14:05 < quaid> dunno 14:05 -!- fozzmoo [n=fozz@xxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:06 * laubersm here 14:06 < quaid> since I just did the 'hit their nick thing' we can wait a moment 14:06 * quaid forgets how useful that is 14:06 -!- jsmith [n=njsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:06 < quaid> I regularly get saved in to a meeting because some kind soul hit my nick to remind me it was time :) 14:06 * ke4qqq is here 14:06 * jsmith stumbles in, but is on two phone calls at the moment, and won't be much use in the meeting 14:06 < Sparks> jsmith: That's a neat trick 14:07 -!- sdziallas_ [n=sebastia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:07 < fozzmoo> heh heh. The Asterisk guy is on 2 phone calls. har har. 14:07 < quaid> heh 14:07 < quaid> he needs an Asterisk Turing plugin 14:07 < jsmith> fozzmoo: It would be funnier if it weren't true :-( 14:07 < quaid> refering to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 14:08 < quaid> from a hackfest point of view, results were mixed 14:08 * dbewley partially here 14:08 < quaid> * we didn't get the beats renamed 14:08 < quaid> * I should have known Paul wouldn't be available since he was /running the conference/ and I didn't do too much on process by myself 14:08 < quaid> * we still need pages renamed, but could have tho' didn't categorize the pages 14:09 < quaid> * jsmith was looking a bit on moving the needle on the IG conversion/how to convert to Publican stuff 14:09 < quaid> * we taught about the wiki 14:09 < quaid> * docbook was taught, yay 14:09 -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has quit ["Leaving"] 14:09 < quaid> * probably a dozen people were positively influenced about the wiki, but we wanted the whole room to bow to our methods 14:10 < quaid> that's all I had 14:10 < ke4qqq> do we have owners for the various groups of pages? 14:10 < jsmith> quaid: FWIW, stickster and I took a stab at the Publican stuff, but ran into problems with stickster's XSL transform 14:11 < stickster> jsmith: I think I knocked most of those out 14:11 < stickster> The newest tarball should hopefully work better 14:11 < laubersm> I got nudged into taking lead on Packaging docs 14:11 < jsmith> stickster: Cool... I'll give it a shot when I get a free minute 14:11 < stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_convert_to_from_fedora-docs-util_to_Publican 14:12 < quaid> ke4qqq: we have owners or people working on all BUT the release notes 14:12 < quaid> laubersm++ 14:12 < ke4qqq> wow laubersm!!!! 14:13 -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-busy 14:13 < quaid> yeah, I think the Packaging Guide is a great fit -- laubersm has the skills to learn it on the job :), and it's probably the most impactful thing we can be working on, in terms of making Fedorans' lives better. 14:13 < jsmith-busy> Amen! 14:13 < laubersm> I don't think the renaming and adding catagories will be hard... then we;ll go from there 14:13 * quaid expects others will pitch in esp. as they see momentum 14:14 < quaid> laubersm: go ahead and talk too much about it on fedora-docs-list; ask lots of questions on fedora-wiki@xxxxxxxxxxxx; etc. 14:14 < laubersm> will do 14:15 < ke4qqq> yeah I finished all of the Ambassador renaming during fudcon - I'd guess maybe an hour per 100 pages if you know the content. 14:15 < Sparks> +1 14:16 < quaid> ke4qqq: sweet, yeah, I saw the PSV file 14:16 < quaid> g / G_work is probably still asleep ... 14:17 < quaid> we maybe need to enable ianweller to use wikibot more or something. 14:17 < quaid> I'd like to see us push those naming changes through asap. 14:17 -!- fab [n=bellet@xxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:18 < Sparks> quaid: How long does it take wikibot to do all the work? 14:18 < quaid> dunno, it should be pretty fast 14:18 < quaid> it's making changes in the database perhaps? 14:18 < quaid> yeah, I think so; it's not scraping and inputing via the usual web interface. 14:18 < Sparks> heck, give him the keys and let him go nuts 14:19 < quaid> +1 14:19 < quaid> so, we'll update the main task list from the fudcon did/didn't list when we get there 14:19 < Sparks> Can we create a new position? Like Wiki Czar? 14:19 < ke4qqq> Sparks: isn't that ian? 14:19 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg : https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_during_FUDConF11 :: CMS planz 14:19 < Sparks> ke4qqq: My point exactly. :) 14:19 < quaid> Sparks: basically, yes, I think we did that a while ago 14:20 < Sparks> quaid: Cool 14:20 < quaid> a few months, not sure if it was Czar, but I like that 14:20 < quaid> hope it wouldn't get any any czarists angry :) 14:20 < quaid> so, did everyone read my email on CMS to f-docs-l? 14:20 -!- MrTom [n=mrtom@fedora/MrTom] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:21 < Sparks> I did. 14:21 < laubersm> I did 14:21 * jsmith-busy read it, threw his hands in the air, and did nothing else 14:21 < ke4qqq> yes, and I am curious as to what response you have had. 14:21 < quaid> laubersm: cheat, you proofread it for me before I sent it! 14:21 * laubersm laughs 14:21 < quaid> ke4qqq: I haven't looked outside of the list yet, but p'raps it's time to send to the other lists 14:21 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:22 * ke4qqq thought you already sent it to -devel 14:22 < quaid> nothing from the wider community; Max and Greg thought it was a good plan. 14:22 -!- sdziallas_ is now known as sdziallas 14:22 < quaid> ke4qqq: oops, not yet 14:22 < quaid> why stall? not sure ... 14:22 < Sparks> quaid: Is there a wiki page for the CMS discussion? 14:22 < quaid> Sparks: yeah ... 14:22 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites 14:22 * ke4qqq thinks we should send it to -devel and -art and maybe even just the fedora list 14:23 < laubersm> quaid: send it out 14:23 < quaid> ke4qqq: +1 ... hadn't thought about art though 14:23 < quaid> definitely -list and -devel-list 14:25 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:25 < Sparks> quaid: We should build profiles on each option that has been proposed and show pros and cons. 14:25 -!- John5342 [n=john5342@fedora/John5342] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:26 < quaid> Sparks: ah, see ... 14:26 < Sparks> quaid: Maybe we can narrow the list down based on specific things we have to have or can't live with. 14:26 < Sparks> quaid: Plus the ability of someone to maintain it upstream. 14:26 -!- iarlyy [n=iarly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #fedora-meeting [] 14:26 < ke4qqq> the problem we identified at FUDcon is that virtually all of the options meet most if not all of the needs. 14:26 < Sparks> ke4qqq: That's the kind of problem I like! 14:26 < quaid> right, and the process of going beyond marketing materials 14:26 < quaid> is a huge vetting operation. 14:27 < quaid> Sparks: except then nothing stands out as a clear winner 14:27 < Sparks> quaid: True 14:27 < ke4qqq> and really, we are looking for owners. 14:27 < quaid> we also have the problem that anything we bring to Infrastructure is going to be new to them; they are already well taxed with other complexity, etc. 14:27 -!- red_alert [n=ill@fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:27 < quaid> ke4qqq: +1 14:28 < Sparks> So we would need a buy in from them as well. 14:28 < Sparks> We don't want something that is going to add so much work, etc. 14:28 < quaid> Sparks: that was the brainwave at FUDCon -- we aren't looking for a CMS as much as owners for a CMS, who are preferably passionate about it otherwise. 14:28 < quaid> e.g. note Basil's response on list 14:28 < ke4qqq> Sparks: Mike & Co. seem pretty open to just about anything within reason. 14:28 < jsmith-busy> quaid: I talked to mmcgrath about that, and he didn't seem *that* concerned about bringing in a new CMS 14:29 < Sparks> Have we drawn a line in the sand to say "no more" than the seven on the list now? 14:29 < quaid> jsmith-busy: I know, but then I talked with Toshio ... 14:29 < ke4qqq> jsmith-busy: but on Sunday he did point out that the wiki migration was really successful because it had an owner (Ian) 14:30 < quaid> right, and the wiki is the reference model 14:30 < quaid> when we announced that we were going to move to a specific wiki solution, the person passionate about it showed up. 14:30 < jsmith-busy> Sparks: No, it may be premature to draw that line (as much as I hate to admit it) 14:30 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:30 < Sparks> jsmith-busy: Well, that's a problem in itself. 14:30 < quaid> and if we just said "Drupal" that would probably happen, but then we had the thought ... why not just approach this through the passion/interest as a primary scope item. 14:30 < Sparks> jsmith-busy: As you already know 14:30 * danielsmw waves hello 14:31 < quaid> hey danielsmw 14:31 * jsmith-busy has to run 14:31 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:31 -!- jsmith-busy is now known as jsmith-away 14:31 < quaid> we are catching up on CMS; ref. email sent to f-docs-l 14:31 < danielsmw> k 14:32 < quaid> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00077.html for the IRC records :) 14:33 -!- harveybetty [n=harvey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:33 < quaid> Sparks: one thing I appreciated about Basil's email was that he narrowed it to "PHP-based" but was willing to consider outside of his expertise; that leaves room for e.g. Joomla experts to show up and he can join that team. 14:33 < quaid> hey harveybetty 14:33 < ke4qqq> right, but the MW decision was pushed based on the technical need. 14:33 < quaid> we are catching up on CMS; ref. email sent to f-docs-l 14:33 < harveybetty> Hi there - I was in the wrong channel 14:33 < quaid> ke4qqq: right, and we have no clear cms winner as we did for wiki 14:33 < quaid> plus that was some months of work on mmcgrath's part; he vetted the solutions, ran scripts, etc. 14:33 < quaid> the part of this that we could do but haven't nor really want to :) 14:34 < quaid> harveybetty: yeah, we got our meeting time secured; the other group moved to a different day 14:34 < harveybetty> Is there a list of CMS's that are being considered? 14:35 < danielsmw> harveybetty: this was the original page on the topic that lists some on the bottom: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites#Background 14:35 < danielsmw> although i don't know what's been discussed here 14:35 < quaid> we are talkinga bout 14:36 < quaid> the idea of having a team self-identify as being willing 14:36 < quaid> to deploy and maintain 14:36 < quaid> and they choose their own solution 14:36 < danielsmw> ooh. 14:36 < quaid> i.e., email to fedora-list gets some Drupal people interested 14:36 < quaid> so it's Drupal, they run it, and we work with them. 14:37 < quaid> otherwise we are in a deep rabbit hole looking at 100+ solutions that nearly all fit our needs, without any technical contributors to fix the gaps, and still nothing deployed with no one to deploy it :) 14:38 < harveybetty> Drupal is a nice solution. There is an XML module that fits nicely. I have run into a problem when trying to install faceted search because the search doesn't understand XML and causes errors. I am investigating integrating SOLR as the search engine. 14:38 < quaid> ok, so I'm sending email to f-devel-l and fedora-list and fedora-art-list 14:39 < quaid> harveybetty: honestly, considering how many Drupalheads I know of, I'd bet that one has a clear run for the lead; if you are interested in being part of a team that deploys/maintains, that is even better :) 14:39 < quaid> we haven't heard of any DocBook module other than that one 14:39 * quaid ready to move on to the next agenda item 14:39 < quaid> anything more here? 14:40 < ke4qqq> nothing - but I'd like to ask a bunch of questions of harveybetty at some point regarding drupal 14:40 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Maybe we should have a separate session after the meeting 14:40 < harveybetty> Be glad too. It is a generic XML module and you can plug Docbook in. 14:40 * danielsmw agrees 14:40 < Sparks> ke4qqq: I have questions as well 14:41 < quaid> ok, maybe on #fedora-docs, start anytime IMO 14:41 < harveybetty> I can be available later on #fedora-docs. 14:41 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Release notes lead ... 14:41 < quaid> this remains our only un-led guide 14:42 < quaid> other than wider recruiting ... 14:42 < quaid> any other thoughts on that one? 14:42 * quaid notes that it is in fact usually much easier on the writing and much harder on the wrangling of cats than other content 14:42 < Sparks> This is probably one of our biggest project that gets the most attention. 14:43 < quaid> yeah, I think it's unlikely we'll just drop it 14:43 < quaid> despite whatever stickster and I have said :) 14:44 < quaid> so it might be worth a wider recruiting effort? 14:44 -!- moixs [n=chatzill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:44 < stickster> quaid: How many wider recruiting efforts have we had at this point, do you think? 14:44 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 14:44 * ke4qqq wonders if laubersm can be nudged more? 14:44 * Sparks warms up the pokers 14:44 * laubersm runs fast 14:45 -!- BobJensen [n=jensen@fedora/bobjensen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45 -!- EvilBob [n=EvilBob@fedora/bobjensen] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:46 < Sparks> laubersm: I'm sure you'll have support if you do take the project. 14:46 -!- valente [n=valente@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Leaving."] 14:46 < quaid> stickster: not that much outside of my occasional pleas via blogging 14:46 < Sparks> laubersm: Just need someone to "manage" its development. 14:46 < laubersm> sparks: I already have a project 14:46 < Sparks> :) 14:46 < ke4qqq> there's been the mailing list posts as well 14:46 < quaid> yeah, that's my concern, we don't want to overload those who are already taking on assignments 14:47 < quaid> stickster: but with one thing to recruit for, maybe that will help? 14:47 < ke4qqq> so here is my concern..... 14:47 * quaid listens 14:47 < ke4qqq> you are essentially talking about taking a person from 0 - - to responsible for what is arguably the most important document we produce at least in terms of # of readers. 14:49 < quaid> ke4qqq: honestly, I'm going to be there all the way alongside 14:49 < quaid> but that is a good point 14:49 < Sparks> quaid: How long does it take to put all the changes in? 14:49 -!- ezq [n=ezq@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:49 < quaid> Sparks: ideally one watches the wiki along the way and makes it easier 14:49 < ke4qqq> that sounds scary......even though there is handholding available. 14:49 < quaid> true 14:50 < quaid> maybe I could ask for "interns" to work directly with me for the release 14:50 < quaid> with the idea that one of them will step-up to lead for the F12 release. 14:50 < ke4qqq> why not target the beat writers for F10? 14:51 < ke4qqq> esp the non-new feature writers 14:51 -!- EvilBob [n=EvilBob@fedora/bobjensen] has joined #Fedora-Meeting 14:51 -!- BobJensen [n=jensen@fedora/bobjensen] has joined #Fedora-Meeting 14:51 < quaid> ke4qqq: as in, direct asking if they want to lead? 14:51 < ke4qqq> yes 14:52 < quaid> that's not a bad idea in fact :) 14:52 * quaid makes himself a list 14:52 < quaid> so ... 14:52 < ke4qqq> that's a 'promotion'....lol 14:52 < quaid> 1. Ask existing beat writers from F10 14:52 -!- iarlyy [n=iarlyy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:52 < quaid> 2. If no bites, maybe recruit ass't editors who get promoted in the future. 14:52 < quaid> 3. If no go there, decide if we are going to do the guide anyway or not 14:53 -!- cmpahar [n=cmpahar@xxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:53 * ke4qqq thinks FESCo will fire us if we don't.....besides that gets more rave reviews.... - perhaps we drop another document and refocus on that. 14:53 * ke4qqq shrugs 14:53 -!- rod085 [n=rod085@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 14:53 < Sparks> I see the Docs Project working on two kinds of projects: 14:54 < Sparks> 1) The projects we are passionate about 14:54 < Sparks> 2) The projects that need to get done for Fedora 14:54 < quaid> well, one can self-volunteer for 2) but you can't really go asking for that too much. 14:54 < Sparks> While we all like doing the first type of projects we all need to do the second type. 14:55 * ke4qqq doesn't see many projects that aren't #2, even if the reason for working on them are #1. 14:56 < Sparks> ke4qqq: true 14:56 * ke4qqq can't get subjects and verbs to agree 14:56 < quaid> right, and the idea is to get #2 done via the #1 method 14:56 < quaid> then it's done better, with more fun, etc. 14:56 < ke4qqq> +1 14:57 < Sparks> +1 14:57 < laubersm> and if there is someone out there passionate about having release notes..... 14:57 < quaid> :D 14:57 < quaid> well, if we drop the work, they'll sure notice :) 14:57 < ke4qqq> there are lots of people passionate about having them....just not about writing them. 14:57 < quaid> is anyone available/interested in helping with the recruting for RN lead? 14:58 * ke4qqq will work on recruiting a new RN lead 14:58 < quaid> ke4qqq: you're on! 14:58 < quaid> thx 14:58 * quaid will update our tasks table with this stuff, too 14:59 < quaid> since we are near closing 14:59 < quaid> how about if we call this here and retire to #fedora-docs? 14:59 < ke4qqq> +1 14:59 < danielsmw> +1 14:59 < quaid> sweet 14:59 * quaid closes in 5 14:59 < quaid> 4 14:59 < quaid> 3 14:59 < quaid> 2 14:59 < quaid> 1 14:59 < quaid> </meeting> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkluYk4ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMEYPQCfblsQ841u3e5J2y/0b4NO4S+M WPgAnA8d5xXLL1o8PHjSbJzFqmmitGLP =a3ob -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
