20:17 < quaid> <meeting> 20:17 < couf> disco 20:17 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCO meeting, gathering the souls 20:19 -!- jmtaylor [n=jason@fedora/jmtaylor] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:19 < stickster> Documentation, wooo! 20:19 < quaid> docmentation lad 20:19 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation Project -- it's all about the Docs, baby! 20:19 < quaid> lesson one of the wiki, if you have a page loaded, don't edit that, edit in a new tab, because there is no guarantee you'll get it up in time for the meeting to start 20:20 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDocumentation!SCo mtg ::: Colophon policy for release notes 20:20 < quaid> by golly, a new thing to discuss 20:21 < couf> fiesta 20:21 -!- smooge [n=smooge@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #fedora-meeting ["-ENOTIME"] 20:21 * stickster takes credit for new topic 20:21 < quaid> ok, so who knows anything about this? 20:21 < quaid> you may speak 20:22 < stickster> Re: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-March/msg00152.html 20:22 < stickster> The responses so far are unanimous that #2 is the solution, wipe the Colophon each release and gather it again based on CVS commits and other activity. 20:22 < stickster> Makes for easier tracking (i.e. only have to do it for the release we're in) 20:23 < couf> +1 to #2 20:23 < stickster> And if you want your name in, you better get hoppin'! :-) 20:23 -!- schlobinux_ [n=xavierb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #fedora-meeting [] 20:23 < stickster> I'm +1 to #2 as well. 20:23 < couf> yeah and the old names are still available in other versions of the relnotes 20:23 < stickster> Exactly. 20:23 -!- gospo [n=gospo@nat/redhat/x-999a994c8af35a5e] has left #fedora-meeting [] 20:24 * quaid looks, one second 20:24 < couf> Q: where do we start? as in everyone who committed to devel since the F-<previous version> branch or after the pot-drop? 20:25 < quaid> also there is the wiki commits 20:25 < stickster> couf: I'd say start with beat writers for the current release 20:25 < quaid> so I'd say, anything after the last wiki snapshot for the previous release 20:25 < stickster> quaid *jinx 20:25 < couf> aye 20:25 < stickster> So it would be those people, plus any translators from the first POT drop 20:25 < stickster> onward 20:25 < quaid> yeah, man, give credit to the soul who comes and cleans up the last mess 20:25 < quaid> onward 20:25 < stickster> No kidding 20:25 < couf> right-o 20:26 < stickster> Votes? Votes? 20:26 < stickster> We have (2) +1's thus far 20:26 < couf> and about 10 communitized +1's too 20:26 < quaid> looks like list agrees 20:26 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 20:27 < quaid> +1 to "slick that sucker each release" method 20:27 < quaid> all right! 20:27 < quaid> we have a real consensus 20:27 < quaid> now we just need a volunteer to do the work 20:28 < couf> right, that was my second question :-) 20:29 < couf> looking at the page it seems that a lot have actually added themselves, so that'll probably be an easy one 20:30 < quaid> ok, I emailed the question to the thread 20:30 < quaid> and asking translators to add themselves to the wiki page is a great method, too 20:30 < quaid> that is, add yourself if you want guarantee, and we'll look in the logs anyway 20:31 < couf> indeed 20:31 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi@nat/redhat/x-ca74e5403d1c08be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:31 < quaid> ok 20:32 < quaid> I think we have what we need squeezed from that topic, eh? 20:32 * quaid momentarily distracted by short, adorable people 20:32 < quaid> any mo' on this topic? 20:32 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si@fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:33 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDocumentation!SCo mtg ::: Single source summary ... 20:33 < quaid> onward then 20:33 * quaid heard the sound of the bell there, he was sure of it 20:33 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SingleSourceSummary 20:33 < quaid> now, as I expected, I haven't touched it since I poured it all into the pot, gave it a stir, and added some salt and pepper 20:34 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi@nat/redhat/x-f047abd9f59e823b] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:34 < stickster> quaid: You took my bell joke! 20:35 * stickster meant to devote some time to SSS and ran out of cycles. 20:35 < quaid> stickster: "redistributed" 20:36 < quaid> I'm going to hang a CC BY SA sign around my neck 20:36 < stickster> ha 20:36 < quaid> "You may take whatever I say, think about it, and say what you will from it." 20:36 * couf needs to say photographic evidence first 20:36 < stickster> So about the SSS... 20:37 < couf> s/say/see 20:37 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/SingleSourceSummary actually 20:38 < quaid> what we manage ther 20:38 < quaid> e 20:38 < quaid> is the technical content 20:39 < quaid> so, ideally, we can give some raw ideas into the overview type pages and let other writers (who may be some of us) add their polish; share this with Mktg 20:39 -!- jsmith [n=user@xxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:39 * jsmith stumbles in late 20:39 < stickster> quaid: I don't think enough people know what tasks they're supposed to complete on this page. 20:39 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa@fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:39 < quaid> moin jsmith :D 20:39 < jsmith> moin moin 20:39 < stickster> ~lart jsmith 20:39 < quaid> stickster: I haven't really put thunks into it 20:45 -!- rdieter [n=rdieter@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:46 < quaid> and there we are 20:46 * quaid had in house distractions, sorry 20:46 < quaid> not sure how to tackle the SSS 20:48 < stickster> quaid: Should we be marking tags around the beginning and end of each section? 20:48 < stickster> Adding content? 20:48 < quaid> well, I see that some content actually needs to be sucked in _from_ the Beats pages, not vice versa, right? 20:48 * stickster tempted to ask about next actions since he's reading that part of GTD 20:48 < quaid> that is, let people continue editing the Beats pages as-is 20:49 < stickster> Yeah, we don't want to screw the Beats process at this point in F9 20:49 < quaid> ok, if I had the time to do this, i would do these actions: 20:50 < quaid> * wrap ## comments around OverView in the Beats, then pull that back in to the SSS 20:50 < quaid> * Look at what is common amongst the other content for merging 20:50 < quaid> * mark ## comments around that content for inclusion in other pages 20:51 < quaid> * scope all pages needing content, what do they need, etc. 20:51 < quaid> ** begin pulling pieces 20:51 * stickster suggests for anywhere we use [[Include(x,y,z)]] outside the SSS page, we should leave a starting note to let people know not to bother it 20:51 < stickster> ## This content is drawn from another page. Don't remove this macro without talking to the Docs Project first. 20:52 < stickster> ## Or unless you really, REALLY know what you're doing. 20:52 < quaid> +1 20:52 < couf> yeah, good idea 20:52 < quaid> ok, there are my actions 20:53 < quaid> let's at least get them minutes-ized 20:53 < stickster> We haven't jmbabich today, who's minutizing? 20:53 * quaid just noticed that 20:54 < couf> I'll do it 20:54 < quaid> thanks! 20:54 < stickster> Thank you couf! 20:54 * quaid was about to say something sarcastic 20:54 < couf> which would be? :-) 20:54 < quaid> in a good way, of course :) 20:55 < quaid> "don't hurt your arm sockets waving your volunteering hands" 20:55 < quaid> something stupid like that :) 20:55 < quaid> seriously ... 20:55 -!- alleycat [n=lonewolf@fedora/wolfy] has left #fedora-meeting ["If you look like your passport picture, you probably need the trip!"] 20:55 < couf> heh :) 20:56 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:56 < quaid> ok, while the wiki is whacked ... 20:56 < quaid> last few minutes we can talk about /// 20:56 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg ::: active content work 20:57 < quaid> relnotes are doing OK ... 20:57 < quaid> some changes rolled in to wiki, etc. 20:58 < quaid> beta notes went fine 20:58 < stickster> Yeah, this one came together pretty well 20:58 < stickster> I did a little frenzied stuff with f13 the night before, but it was less than par for the course, actually 20:58 < quaid> mizmo, mlanglie came in to help with making a mucho cooler relnotes landing page for F9 final 20:58 < couf> thumbs up to all who did the work 20:58 < stickster> One thing we should definitely try to keep in mind is to standardize our linking to the downloads 20:58 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:59 < jmbuser> meeting? 20:59 < quaid> the current discussion is to reorganize the content around reader interests, and we'll try to do that with the existing XML pulled in a different XInclude structure 20:59 < quaid> jmbuser: still going 20:59 < couf> moin jmbuser 20:59 < stickster> We tried to consistently use http://fp.o/get-prerelease and http://fp.o/<static_relnotes> this time around 20:59 < couf> which worries me a little cause the final relnotes are supposed to go to docs.fp.o 21:00 < stickster> couf: That's an interesting point, and intersects with quaid's last statement 21:00 < stickster> You see... 21:00 < stickster> I think that the notes on the static site, where we send people at first, either from fp.o front page or start.fp.o, need more reworking than just content shuffling. 21:01 < stickster> I think they ought to be trimmed and edited to be more like gnome.org's 21:02 < stickster> On every page/section, those trimmed "splashy" notes can link to our big release notes document for indepth info 21:02 < couf> agreed 21:02 * couf always liked gnome's way of doing it 21:02 < stickster> This *could* mean more work and strings, but since we have to do this repeatedly anyway for release announcements and other overview, it's actually a way to save some work 21:02 < stickster> Especially if we use summaries on SSS to write in human language. 21:03 < quaid> hrm 21:03 < quaid> this is a bit of an effort, for sure 21:03 < stickster> "How does this help the <user/developer/admin> kick ass?" 21:03 < quaid> can we do this in the time remaining? do we have the resources? 21:03 < stickster> We have the power 21:03 * quaid puts on his curmudgeon hat 21:03 < stickster> We have some webmonkey help 21:03 < couf> l10n won't like this ;-) 21:03 < stickster> couf: Well, it's putting some new strings on the web site, to be sure. 21:03 < quaid> well 21:04 < quaid> yes, website side 21:04 < quaid> so 21:04 < quaid> if we do the work *now*ish 21:04 < couf> ricky: ping 21:04 < quaid> then it can be translated in the weeks up to GA where the main package trans is mostly done 21:04 < stickster> Right 21:04 < stickster> And we know the feature set already. 21:04 < couf> true enough 21:05 < quaid> can we suck in the strings from OverView PO files into the website PO files? 21:05 < stickster> Probably 21:05 < quaid> so that's the idea on the table 21:05 < stickster> But much of the OverView beat as it is right now needs to be rewritten for this usage. 21:05 < quaid> turn our resources to doing this 21:05 * stickster for it. 21:05 < stickster> We've got EvilBob+team on IG already 21:05 < quaid> while we still have DUG, AG, SMG, and Enc/CryptoG 21:06 < quaid> we really need a new source of editors 21:06 < stickster> quaid: I think the relnotes are a good place for you and me to put our experience, since it's a new venture. 21:06 < stickster> We can spread that particular love/pain in F10 21:06 < stickster> We're already doing pretty well at spreading out the other guides 21:06 < couf> you've got mdious too on relnotes 21:07 < stickster> True 21:07 < stickster> So I say let's go for it 21:07 < quaid> heh 21:07 < quaid> but I'm a curmudgeon! 21:07 < quaid> ah, well, rising tide and all that 21:07 * quaid sends begging for editors email 21:07 * stickster needs to bail for a bit... call 21:07 < stickster> back in 10 on #f-docs 21:07 < quaid> k 21:08 < quaid> there isn't anything new on the other content, fwiw 21:08 < quaid> so we can call for other business or quit 21:08 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg ::: Other bidness 21:08 < couf> the only thing would be: DUG target version 21:08 < quaid> oh, right! 21:08 < quaid> well, do we need to decide that? or is that an on-list discussion/decision? 21:09 < couf> on-list is fine 21:09 < couf> writers are following that topic 21:10 < ricky> couf: Ah, sorry, I pretty much have to leave in a minute. 21:10 < quaid> yep, agreed 21:10 < couf> ricky: no problem, was just wondering what date the website would freeze for F9 21:10 * quaid sees it has wandered 21:10 < quaid> all right then, we'll get ready to pull the plug on this mtg 21:11 < couf> go for it 21:11 < ricky> couf: How long do you think translators need? 21:11 < ricky> (Before final release) 21:12 < couf> ricky: if you can give them 2 weeks that would be awesome 21:12 < ricky> OK, in that case, around mid-april (15th or before fine?) 21:13 < couf> 15th is fine 21:13 < ricky> All right, thanks for the reminder. 21:13 < quaid> ok 21:13 < couf> quaid: that means we need to finish the web transition on the 15 too 21:13 < quaid> right 21:13 < quaid> got that stickster !!! 21:13 < couf> heh 21:13 < quaid> ok, closing in 5 21:13 < quaid> 5 21:13 < quaid> 4 21:13 < quaid> 3 21:14 < quaid> 2 21:14 < quaid> </meeting>
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