http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070731 09:01 < quaid> <meeting> 09:01 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda 09:01 < jmbuser> JohnBabich 09:02 < EvilBob> BobJensen 09:04 < EvilBob> News on item 1? 09:06 < EvilBob> Did I get disconnected? 09:06 -!- gomix [n=gomix@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #fedora-docs [] 09:06 < jmbuser> EvilBob: You're still on the air, but I don't know about quaid... 09:07 < quaid> uh, huh 09:07 < quaid> work day :/ 09:07 * quaid had to order a Subversion dump in moving a project around, timely crap 09:08 < quaid> ok, so, with just a few of us, we can read some stuff into the record and move aong 09:08 < jmbuser> +1 09:08 < quaid> proposed workflow -- previously ratified, at least consensus by silence, and it looked pretty good 09:08 < quaid> jmbuser: you got your suggestions in on that, right? yes, iirc 09:09 < jmbuser> quaid: I like it... 09:09 < quaid> k 09:09 < quaid> next, digging up a link to vpv's latest status update 09:09 < quaid> http://vpv.kapsi.fi/blog/2007/07/30/weekly-report-week-30/ 09:10 -!- Tehnik [n=tehnik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #fedora-docs ["Segmentation fault"] 09:10 < vpv> I'm here if you need to ask anything 09:10 < EvilBob> I have no questions at this time 09:10 < quaid> don't think so ... 09:11 < vpv> ok 09:11 < quaid> vpv: it's looking good to me; I see where you got caught by some stuff, but the extra work seems to have produced good results 09:11 < quaid> vpv: mainly for you is, when do you think you want to unleash a test on f-docs-l for people to try to break? :) 09:12 < quaid> or, rather, go ahead and unleash it for testing when you are ready, etc. 09:12 < vpv> quaid: I wish I knew... I'm testing it locally right now, I'd say hopefully at the end of the week 09:13 < vpv> but the thing is, the import script has to be run from the console, so it's not that simple to do a "public test" 09:13 < vpv> but of course the wiki itself can be (and already is, actually) public 09:14 < quaid> well, it's going to depend on what really needs testing 09:14 < quaid> is the import script something that gets run e.g. a few times a devel/release cycle? 09:14 < vpv> then there's the thing that importing a complete repository takes something like 2 hours right now... 09:15 < vpv> quaid: for the whole repo, yes, and then updates once in a while 09:15 -!- hers [n=chatzill@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.5/0000000000]"] 09:16 < quaid> vpv: well, as long as it doesn't need to be implemented so writers/editors need to do it regularly 09:16 -!- Tehnik [n=tehnik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-docs 09:16 < quaid> we can have Infrastructure have an SOP (standard op procedure) for it, and we just remember to request via ticket. 09:16 < EvilBob> +1 09:17 < quaid> vpv: ok, just let us know anyway we can test, either as a public test or a smaller group 09:17 < vpv> Ok 09:17 < quaid> if there isn't anything else, I'll move us along ... 09:17 < vpv> not from me... 09:18 < quaid> oops, we missed opening DSCo nominations by 11 days :( 09:18 < EvilBob> oops 09:18 < quaid> ... and we're such a good advertisement for a body to join! 09:18 < quaid> I have a free form discussion topic to insert here 09:18 < quaid> and can probably take it to the list ... 09:19 < jmbuser> ok 09:19 < quaid> it's come up lately about too much bureaucracy in Fedora, and I also see how successful e.g.F-Infra is without a steering committee, although they have the new sponsorship (merit -based) model 09:19 < jmbuser> go on... 09:20 < quaid> otoh, I think having recognized leaders helps, just as I think having some way to show merit-gained (or to gain merit) 09:20 < quaid> so I'm wondering if this project still needs a steering committee? 09:20 < quaid> or at least one that runs this way? 09:20 < EvilBob> I think we do 09:20 < quaid> what do we gain by it? what would be lose? 09:21 < EvilBob> but we need to stress keeping people accountable for what they hope to do, I know in the past I have fallen way short of my personal goals 09:22 < jmbuser> Also, the steering committee has what some people refer to as a "corporate memory" 09:22 < EvilBob> My hate of the wiki has been partially to blame 09:22 < jmbuser> wiki-hating is evil... 09:22 < EvilBob> at the same time not learning the other tools has also hindered me 09:23 < jmbuser> xml-avoidance is also evil - I'm guilty of that as well... 09:24 < EvilBob> I think as committee members we need to get our goals out in the public eye so we are accountable 09:24 < jmbuser> +1 09:24 < quaid> but all of these things are true without having a structure around it 09:24 < EvilBob> we are on the committee to be examples and mentors 09:25 < quaid> maybe the one that thing that a formal committee provides is that visibility to new contributors 09:25 < EvilBob> I think that we should keep the committee for at least 1 year and look at its need before the F9 election 09:25 < quaid> f-infra as the skillz to form like Voltron, which we lack 09:25 < quaid> well, just something to discuss ongoing, I guess, no need to derail currency 09:26 < quaid> should we just bump the schedule up for the elections with tomorrow as the opening of nominations? 09:26 < jmbuser> +1 09:26 < EvilBob> +1 to the bump 09:26 < Tehnik> A plane with a load of flights recorders have crashed in Columbia. According to expersts, it will take a thousand years to determine the reason of the accident 09:27 < EvilBob> Who is up for re-election? 09:28 < quaid> hmm, i forget :) 09:29 < EvilBob> Bart, Powel and John? 09:29 < quaid> before I foolishly do all this, do either of you have the time to kick elections in gear? 09:29 < EvilBob> Pawel 09:29 < quaid> bump the schedule, figure out which seats are open, tap the right Wiki pages, send announcements ... 09:30 -!- JonRob [n=jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/";] 09:30 < EvilBob> What lists do we send the announcement to? 09:30 < EvilBob> Just ours? 09:30 < quaid> yeah, just ours 09:30 < EvilBob> I can handle that, I have time in the morning 09:30 < quaid> ok, cool 09:31 * EvilBob makes a note 09:31 < quaid> just bump the schedule up a few weeks, and make sure the election itself has two weekends for voting 09:31 < jmbuser> Thanks, Bob 09:31 < quaid> (the last message sent to the ist was 03 July, iirc) 09:31 < quaid> yeah, thx 09:31 * quaid is busier than a dual amputee at a pancake flipping contest 09:32 < EvilBob> BTW did we kill the fdsco list yet? 09:32 < quaid> as dead as we can, yes 09:32 < EvilBob> Good 09:33 < EvilBob> Next item? 09:34 < EvilBob> Guide updates 09:34 < quaid> *ugh* 09:34 < quaid> sorry, i mean ..uh ... 09:34 < jmbuser> I'm seriously distracted by work - what with a new project and vacations 09:35 < quaid> well, the thing is ... 09:35 < EvilBob> No updates, are there guides we need to poke? 09:35 < quaid> if we are continuing to rely upon only this group to update guides 09:35 < quaid> we are in trouble 09:35 < jmbuser> +1 09:35 < quaid> and we cannot seem to get anyone else interested 09:35 < quaid> and I don't get why 09:35 < EvilBob> I agree 09:35 < EvilBob> maybe some hand holding is needed 09:35 < quaid> I mean, why bother to introduce yourself and get an account and stuff if you aren't going to pick -anything_ 09:35 < EvilBob> mentoring if you will 09:36 < quaid> sure 09:36 < quaid> but someone needs to *ask* for it :) 09:36 < EvilBob> No we need to offer it 09:36 < quaid> EvilBob: all the guides need updates for F7, and we're about to go into F8 09:36 < quaid> EvilBob: I thought we have 09:36 < jmbuser> I'm willing in a few days to go into a trance and have a personal "hack day" 09:36 < quaid> jmbuser: but how do we get others to try something like that? 09:36 < quaid> ok, then 09:37 < EvilBob> that falls in line with the vFUDcon item 09:37 < quaid> one action is to make a big stink about how much mentoring and hand holding there is available, come n gettit 09:37 < jmbuser> exactly! 09:37 -!- Tehnik [n=tehnik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #fedora-docs ["Segmentation fault"] 09:37 < EvilBob> Personal goal of mine is to get some XML foo going 09:38 < EvilBob> and to help spread that 09:38 < EvilBob> can we move from the guides item for now? 09:38 < quaid> yes 09:38 < EvilBob> OK release notes 09:39 < EvilBob> I am goign to work to flush the beats tonight late an in the morning 09:39 < EvilBob> so we can get moving on the stuff for F8 09:39 < quaid> ok 09:39 < quaid> are we going to do what we did last time? 09:40 < quaid> one-sheet for test1, test2, and first beta notes are test3? 09:40 < EvilBob> I would like to try and be the EIC I should have been in the past but I have found the notes are a huge job and I get bogged down 09:41 < EvilBob> SO I am going to try to do as much work as I con 09:41 < EvilBob> can 09:41 < EvilBob> quaid: Yes I think that is the best plan 09:41 < jmbuser> The very first release notes for test1 went very well with an IRC group session 09:41 < quaid> there should be some help in the new Features process 09:42 < EvilBob> we need to document what happens for the notes 09:42 < quaid> John specifically included a field for relnotes 09:42 < quaid> we don't have that? 09:43 < EvilBob> the process 09:43 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process 09:43 < EvilBob> we do but I know there are items that Paul has had to do in the past that might be missing 09:43 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process#TheProcess 09:43 < quaid> in particular 09:43 < quaid> well, it shouldn't be missing from there :) 09:44 < quaid> stickster_work: can you look at that relnotes process and fix anything you know is missing? 09:44 < EvilBob> I mean a technical howto for the release notes 09:44 < EvilBob> "push button A" then "push button B" 09:45 < EvilBob> a lot of the work ended up on Paul the last three releases 09:45 < EvilBob> I want to be able to avoid that 09:46 < EvilBob> If paul leaves us we are screwed 09:47 < EvilBob> Not that I am suggesting it will happen only that it can 09:47 < jmbuser> This is the "what if he's hit by a truck" scenario 09:47 < EvilBob> or has a sick kid/wife/self 09:48 < quaid> yeah, that's somewhere, too 09:48 < EvilBob> I am willing to take th elead on making sure we get that this time 09:49 < quaid> ok, just do it if you can not just because you think you should 09:49 < EvilBob> also because our processes change from time to time 09:49 < EvilBob> I can do this 09:49 < EvilBob> anything else on the release notes? 09:50 < EvilBob> vFUDCon/hackfest 09:50 < EvilBob> do we have any plans for this? 09:50 < quaid> ok, I just sent out a notice asking for what people want 09:51 < quaid> think I suggested to Jef that he contact Paul but I don' tknow if that went anywhere 09:51 < quaid> i think we want to know what people want before we do something? 09:51 < EvilBob> I would like to see a "getting started with CVS/XML" lesson 09:51 < quaid> we could pick a slot.time I suppose 09:52 < EvilBob> Paul has done that in the past and I have always missed it 09:52 -!- |DrJef| [n=onefjef@fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-docs 09:52 < EvilBob> speak of the devil 09:52 < EvilBob> morning Jef 09:53 < quaid> |DrJef|: if Docs wants to do a vFUDCon slot, um, do we just pick one? or ? 09:54 < |DrJef|> quaid, just pick it 09:54 < |DrJef|> quaid, time is somewhat..flexible... if there is a conflict.. ill sort it out 09:54 < quaid> ok, let's go to the list with time and what ppl want to hear/see 09:54 < quaid> I think we should focus on current/inactive/active Docs contributors, rather than trying something to attract new ones, etc. 09:55 < quaid> anything else there/ 09:55 < EvilBob> nope that is all I had 09:55 -!- napramirez [n=nap@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:57 < quaid> ok 09:57 * quaid closing meeting in a few seconds 09:58 < quaid> </meeting>
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