Here is the entire meeting log. 17:06 < quaid> <meeting> 17:06 < quaid> and sometimes we start a few minutes lae :) 17:06 < quaid> s/lae/late/ 17:06 * quaid pings some FDSCo folks 17:06 < quaid> stickster_afk, BobJensen 17:07 * EvilBob waves 17:07 < EvilBob> BobJensen 17:09 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSc \hedule 17:09 < quaid> as something to work against 17:10 < quaid> ok, I can give the DUG status 17:10 < quaid> I'm holding it up as Publication Editor, not for any particular re\ason other than ... 17:10 < quaid> i) how do we signify the real content v. Docs/Drafts/? 17:10 < quaid> ii) I want to do a final read through. 17:11 < quaid> we have a problem of content scattered in many locations 17:11 < quaid> and now we have the Docs/Drafts/ URL itself linked from the splash\ page 17:11 < quaid> which in hindsight was a mistake 17:11 < quaid> we should have done a link to Docs/DesktopUserGuide and done a red\irect to the draft until publish. 17:12 < quaid> but we need a way to signify a "version for the latest FC version"\ and "this is for the next FC version" 17:12 < quaid> Docs/ is the former, Docs/Drafts/ is the latter 17:12 < quaid> so ... 17:12 < quaid> how does it sound to ... 17:12 < quaid> have a big link on Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide that links to the \published version on Docs/ 17:13 < quaid> then let the Drafts/ go back to being a draft for F*7 17:13 < EvilBob> +1 17:16 < quaid> yeah, hadn't articulated that before, but it makes sense now that \I write it out :) 17:17 < vnk_fd> is DUG considered completed? 17:18 < quaid> well, except for my publication edit 17:18 < quaid> we can add to it with FC6 content once live, though 17:18 < quaid> publication edit is me reading every page one last time to normali\ze markup, wordsmith, etc. 17:19 < quaid> I just set that for Thursday this week (07 Dec) 17:19 < quaid> if I don't have time before then, I have some time that afternoon \to work on it. 17:19 < quaid> the meta problem here is that not enough people can fill the "Publ\ication Editor" role 17:19 < quaid> partially because the knowledge to do that role is not updated :7 17:19 < EvilBob> Don't forget we have to also work ont he r-n the end of the week\ also but they should not take much time 17:20 < quaid> ok, I'm not primary on that but I'll back you all up 17:20 < quaid> also, some of you all out there might want to excercise new XML sk\ills for that 17:20 < quaid> oh, I ran past the first agenda item 17:21 < quaid> any objections or discussion about folding f-dsco-l into f-docs-l? 17:21 < vnk_fd> back to the original proposal for a sec? 17:21 < quaid> vnk_fd: go ahead 17:21 < vnk_fd> do we need perhaps two 'draft' areas, then 17:21 * quaid puts the 0 item on hold 17:21 < vnk_fd> one for FC7 17:21 < EvilBob> I would like us to wait 6 months before closing that list, see i\f we can make the list useful, if we can't do that in 6 months fold it up 17:22 < vnk_fd> and the other for incomplete stuff *FC6) 17:23 < quaid> EvilBob: what do you see happening on that list in the meantime? 17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: at least on thing I think is that I should send all FDSCo\ agenda, meeting stuff, etc. to f-docs-l at least in parallel 17:24 < EvilBob> quaid: Goes along with what I mentioned earlier about how we use\ our meetings and lists 17:24 < quaid> EvilBob: is the concern that we bore the regular folks with boring\ business/ 17:24 < quaid> ? 17:24 < quaid> vnk_fd: that is a good question 17:24 < EvilBob> yes 17:25 < quaid> vnk_fd: maybe when we publish, we should do two things: 17:25 < quaid> 1. Copy to Docs/FooGuide 17:25 < quaid> 2. Copy to Docs/Drafts/7/FooGuide 17:25 < quaid> s/7/6/ in this case 17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: so back to the question then, what constitutes boring bus\iness? 17:26 < EvilBob> the list is open for those that are interested we don't prevent \list membership on that list really 17:26 * quaid pays for his opening two agenda items at the same time by handling\ two discussions at the same time. 17:26 < quaid> EvilBob: but what about the obscurity? 17:27 < quaid> that is, I think that most of what is sent to f-dsco-l is of inter\est to f-docs-l 17:27 < EvilBob> quaid: IMO a lot of the tools and tool chain stuff may be boring\ to some 17:27 * quaid is appreciating a chance to knock this idea about, since this is t\he first he is really thinking about it 17:28 < EvilBob> I will let you go back to Item 0, I need to deal with family stu\ff for a few 17:29 < quaid> ok 17:29 < quaid> I'm willing to not decide yet on that item anyway 17:29 < vnk_fd> ok, then quickly 17:29 < vnk_fd> 1. quaid publishes to Docs/FooGuide 17:30 < vnk_fd> 1. writers do Docs/Drafts/rel.ver./FooGuide 17:31 < vnk_fd> that one should have been 2. 17:33 < quaid> well, sure, anyone can do most of those parts 17:33 < quaid> iirc about the ACLs, that is 17:33 < quaid> vnk_fd: sounds fine 17:34 < quaid> so Docs/Drafts == rawhide 17:34 < quaid> Docs/Drafts/rel.ver. == release branch 17:34 < EvilBob> rawhide == development 17:34 < quaid> oh, foo 17:34 < quaid> :) 17:36 < quaid> are we comfie with rel.ver. == a prime number? 17:36 < quaid> rather than include "FC" "FF" "F*" 17:36 < quaid> in the same way we don't have to say Docs/FedoraDesktopUserGuide 17:37 < quaid> because Fedora is in the name fedoraproject.org 17:37 < quaid> ? 17:37 < quaid> s/comfie/comfortable/ 17:37 * quaid is comfie with that, fwiw 17:37 < vnk_fd> simpler, the better 17:37 < EvilBob> yes 17:37 < EvilBob> less redundancy 17:38 < vnk_fd> that's if you're comfie with 6 as prime number :-) 17:38 < EvilBob> releases will still be numbered once it is Fedora Freebase 17:38 < quaid> um, I meant 17:39 < quaid> s/prime/whole/ 17:39 < quaid> :) 17:39 * quaid is obviously an English Lit major and not a Math major 17:39 < quaid> ok, so be it 17:40 < vnk_fd> ok 17:43 < EvilBob> OK is item 0 covered? 17:43 < vnk_fd> yes 17:44 -!- mspevack_afk [n=mspevack@fedora/mspevack] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:44 < quaid> and item 1 17:44 < EvilBob> quaid: for the record i would like to paste some of my ideas fro\m our earlier brainstorm 17:45 < quaid> go ahead 17:45 < quaid> what subject? 17:46 < EvilBob> if FDSCo could use it's mailing list more the "business" meeting\ could be 15-30 minutes and then we shift gears to work with everyone brainstormi\ng, one on one colab, groups working on training or what ever is needed it would \make the FDSCo meeting less important because we talk on list, it would also be m\ore inclusive for the FDSCo members that are in other time zones would also make \docs in general more inclusive because we can 17:46 < EvilBob> take what we work on in the "free time" of the meetings to the \general docs list also 17:47 < EvilBob> Meeting format idea and how it relates to us having two mailing \lists 17:47 < quaid> ok 17:48 < quaid> to do that people would actually have to respond and solve busines\s on list 17:48 * quaid looks at the agenda 17:48 < quaid> I can see stuff that would be best to discuss on list 17:49 < quaid> but it seems like its worth keeping on f-docs-l 17:49 < quaid> EvilBob: what constitutes business then? 17:50 < EvilBob> I have not figured that out yet... LOL 17:50 < quaid> heh 17:50 < EvilBob> Tools and Tool chain, can be a bit geeky to non-programmer types\ for one 17:50 < quaid> well, i do think more on-list discussion would save us on some sub\jects 17:51 < quaid> hmm 17:51 < quaid> that would beg a separate tools list, not to push that content to \fdsco list 17:51 < quaid> even then, hmmm 17:51 < EvilBob> I agree, I would think that we start by pushing to fdsco-list an\d then if right we move out to docs-list 17:52 < quaid> but the toolchain is not a steering committee exclusive subject 17:52 < EvilBob> some of the development stuff that we talkabout as fdsco may not\ be of interest to our writers 17:52 < quaid> also, one of our goals is the production of a toolchain, so we nee\d one location that everyone can get updates about it from. 17:52 < quaid> it is coincidental that most of the toolchain folks are on FDSCo 17:53 < quaid> but not exclusive 17:53 < EvilBob> Yes I agree 17:53 < quaid> tsekine and glezos for example have contributed to the discussion,\ on f-docs-l 17:53 < quaid> patches, etc. 17:53 < EvilBob> open the list up so those that are interested in teh development\ of our tools and tool chain can join 17:53 < quaid> well, I think I'd first want to hear from the general list that to\ols needs a separate discussion area 17:53 < EvilBob> +1 17:54 < EvilBob> would be a "refocusing" of the fdsco list IMO 17:54 < quaid> well, not really 17:54 < EvilBob> rather than kill that list and start another 17:55 < quaid> I don't agree with pushing tools to that list, personally 17:55 < quaid> it's more confusing 17:55 < quaid> my instinct is to fold into one list and handle it all there 17:55 < quaid> that the more we spread, the more we lose 17:55 < EvilBob> as long as most of our contributors are OK with that I will be a\lso 17:56 < quaid> can you ask the question on list? just the general "move tools or\ leave here" question, not where. 17:56 * quaid doesn't want to overstay his posting for the week 17:56 < EvilBob> Sure i will ask tonight 17:57 < EvilBob> Item 1 closed IMO 17:57 < EvilBob> address again next week based on list input 17:58 < quaid> sure 17:59 < quaid> ok, we've got megacoder and eitch MIA with a couple of important p\rojects on them 17:59 < quaid> so I'll send email directly to find out what their status us 17:59 * quaid has been updating http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Steeri \ngCommittee/TaskSchedule as we're going along 17:59 < quaid> next we can address from there with present company is the relnote\s update 17:59 < quaid> EvilBob: anything we need to think about there? 18:00 < EvilBob> on the subject of open projects, we have a large number of items\ on our taskSchedule that are quite old and should ether be handed off or flat ou\ t killed 18:01 < EvilBob> in the stalled section 18:01 < quaid> stalled == bad press? 18:01 < EvilBob> Evaluate and integrate RPM Guide into Building Packages Guide as\ an example 18:02 < quaid> well, we can work on that as part of the working meeting 18:02 < EvilBob> tht item was drafted by ignacio and he is completely MIA, what d\o we do with that draft? 18:03 < EvilBob> he does not answer emails or phone calls, no response by postal \mail either 18:04 < EvilBob> I was just wondering if we had a policy on orphaned drafts/docs/\contributions 18:04 < quaid> we don't yet 18:04 < quaid> we could move them to an orphan section of some kind, but we don't\ want them to disappear 18:06 < EvilBob> there is at least one item on there (stalled section) that I kno\w I cold out the guys from the unity project to work on 18:06 * quaid finished his edits to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/St \eeringCommittee/TaskSchedule 18:06 < EvilBob> s/cold/could 18:06 < quaid> that is, the updates for the day are done there 18:06 < quaid> one second, let me formally wrap up the business 18:06 < EvilBob> sure 18:07 < quaid> I want to move the FLOSS docs summit back to the list for discussi\on, John and I have proposed two related directions, and that's where it sits 18:07 < quaid> maybe this is all in his and my mind, I dunno :) 18:07 < EvilBob> are you editing that page? 18:08 < EvilBob> If so can you please fix my WikiName on the release notes item 18:08 < EvilBob> BobJensen 18:09 < quaid> ok 18:10 < quaid> done 18:10 < EvilBob> thanks 18:12 < BobJensen> Where are we with the moin update and plone testing/migration? 18:13 < quaid> ok, that was all the agenda items 18:13 < quaid> we can go back to discussing stale stuff 18:13 < quaid> oh, sorry 18:13 < quaid> you are right, there are those items 18:14 < BobJensen> who are the contacts for those items and how much do we pick a\t the scabs? 18:14 < BobJensen> LOL 18:16 < quaid> ok, on Moin for the docbook and 1.6 stuff 18:16 < quaid> we need someone to help with the Python in Moin Moin and most like\ly be the maintainer 18:16 < quaid> of that code 18:16 < quaid> for us and for Moin Moin 18:17 < quaid> hmm 18:17 < BobJensen> OK so we need a "help wanted" page on the wiki see if we can't\ get a snake charmer 18:17 < quaid> I posted to f-infrastructure-; 18:17 < BobJensen> OK 18:17 < quaid> nneed to do the same to f-websites-l 18:17 < quaid> and maybe ask whoever packages it for Fedora 18:18 < quaid> ok, I split the tasks out on the task schedule 18:18 < quaid> the 1.5.6 upgrade is happening already, see the list for testing r\equest 18:18 < BobJensen> I am going to put an open request out on the Fedora Unity site\s for a python developer for some stuff we need done there, maybe we can find som\e one to come over to docs to help also 18:19 < quaid> cool 18:19 < quaid> I posted to f-websites-l 18:20 < quaid> we'll see if that helps, and I'll try to find the packager from FE 18:20 * quaid doesn't know how to do that 18:20 < BobJensen> I can track that down easy enough, should be on the owners lis\t 18:21 < BobJensen> When I get the maintainers name I will pass the contact info o\n to you if you don't find it first 18:23 < quaid> ok, thx 18:23 < BobJensen> http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/owners/owners.list?root=e \xtras&view=markup 18:24 < BobJensen> It is Thias from FreshRPMs matthias@xxxxxxxxxxxx 18:26 < quaid> ah, ok 18:26 < quaid> he probably doesn't want to help with the Python, but we'll ask :) 18:26 < quaid> hmmm 18:26 * quaid ponders filing all this as a bug request :) 18:27 < BobJensen> BZ is many time the best way to reach him I am told 18:28 < quaid> ok, I'll try that 18:29 < BobJensen> Jon "daMaestro" Steffan is the lead packager for Zope and Plon\e now, He got a python work out over the last week on another project with me 18:30 < BobJensen> s/packager/packager for Extras 18:31 < BobJensen> I had not looked at my Docs email I now see the email from pau\lo about the test 18:34 < BobJensen> quaid: need to take a little break here and put the kids to be\d, will see you in a few 18:34 < quaid> ok, bug filed 18:34 < quaid> ok 18:35 * quaid works on more stuff 18:42 < cdehaan> Meeting closed or still running? 18:43 -!- cdehaan [n=Cody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [] 18:44 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined #fedora-docs 18:44 < jmbuser> Good morning! 18:44 < quaid> jmbuser: good morning 18:45 < quaid> see, one reason to hang out, jmbuser eventually wakes up 18:45 < jmbuser> Yawwwwn (tired, not bored) 18:47 < jmbuser> Did I miss anything? :-) 18:52 < quaid> well 18:52 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined\ #fedora-docs 18:52 < quaid> the business stuff was discussed :) 18:52 < quaid> cdehaan: we are done with the agenda and are just in 'working meet\ing' mode 18:52 < cdehaan> OK 18:54 < jmbuser> Very good 18:56 < jmbuser> mether: The customizing yum section is developing nicely. 19:00 < quaid> aye 19:00 < quaid> mether is great for a well organized brain dump of good stuff :) 19:03 < jmbuser> quaid: As is your Docs Projects Workflow - I see I already have \violated the wiki editing process 19:04 < quaid> uh, oh 19:04 < quaid> jmbuser: what did you do ? :) 19:05 < quaid> jmbuser: we just made that up an hour or so ago, so it is adaptive\ v. set in stone 19:05 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [\Remote closed the connection] 19:06 < jmbuser> quaid:Is this a old process (in which I plead ignorance of the l\aw - I want a lawyer) or a new one (better to seek forgiveness than ask permissio\n)? 19:06 < jmbuser> quaid: Ok 19:06 * quaid thinks his previous line crossed jmbuser in the ether 19:06 < quaid> yeah :) 19:06 < quaid> jmbuser: tell me what you did differently? I forget ... 19:07 < jmbuser> quaid: No, it was too good to waste 19:08 < jmbuser> I took the Work Flow Ideas, copied it to my sandbox, chopped it \up and moved it back to the docsproject area as "ready to publish". 19:12 < quaid> oh, interesting 19:13 < quaid> I consider that to be different 19:13 < quaid> that is project documentation 19:13 < quaid> which is different from "Fedora documentation for end-users" 19:13 < quaid> the latter goes in Docs/ and Docs/Drafts 19:13 < quaid> the former in DocsProject/ 19:14 < quaid> and you are right, what you did is a 100% legit workflow for i) ne\w ideas and ii) new project content 19:14 < jmbuser> quaid:That's good 19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined\ #fedora-docs 19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has left #\fedora-docs ["Ex-Chat"] 19:15 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined\ #fedora-docs 19:20 * vnk_fd must go, battery dying 19:21 -!- vnk_fd [n=vnk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:26 -!- megacoder [n=MegaCode@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has joined \#fedora-docs 19:29 < quaid> megacoder: howdy 19:29 < megacoder> who are you ;-? 19:29 < megacoder> hi; long time no C 19:30 < quaid> how are you? 19:31 -!- cdehaan [n=cdehaan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] has quit [\Remote closed the connection] 19:32 < megacoder> Well enough; I've been buried deep in the bowels of Boeing fro\m can til can't. 19:32 < megacoder> That's OK, nobody calls a consultant when things are rosy. 19:32 < quaid> ye ha! 19:34 < quaid> megacoder: I was actually going to summon you to find out if you h\ave made or are going to be able to make progress on ... 19:34 < megacoder> no, and no. I'm just snowed and have very little available ti\me. 19:35 < quaid> ok coolio 19:35 < megacoder> I've missed the goings on and am skipping supper to drop by. 19:36 < megacoder> Of course, at 23 stone, that's not _that_ much of a sacrifice.\.. 19:37 < quaid> :D 19:37 < quaid> well, don't starve much for us 19:38 < quaid> I really should do minutes for these meetings, but I often forget 19:38 < megacoder> np, I sometimes fast for hours 19:39 < megacoder> I was gonna try to sit in on stickster's XML tutorial on Satur\day, for moral support 19:40 < jmbuser> quaid:Yes, please do minutes or post the irc - have you ever use\d irc2html? 19:42 < quaid> nope 19:44 < quaid> jmbuser: i always post the IRC, but it is nice for others to do a \summary or minutes, but I'm not always that nice 19:44 < jmbuser> quaid: It's a perl script that "pretty prints" chat logs and con\verts it to html - as the name implies - and the license is 19:45 < jmbuser> quaid:copyrighted, but free use with attribution 19:48 * quaid just pastes the plain text, since he doesn't send HTML email anywa\y 19:49 < jmbuser> quaid:I volunteer to do meeting minutes, but it's better if I wa\s actually able to attend the meeting. 19:49 < quaid> jmbuser: :) 19:49 < quaid> jmbuser: we're still struggling with what is going to be a good ti\me 19:50 < jmbuser> quaid: One of the challenges of a global community - time zones \and sleep cycles 19:50 < quaid> I'm going to close now and send a final IRC log, since I need to p\ut some moppets to bed 19:50 < quaid> jmbuser: word 19:51 < jmbuser> Signing off to go to work 19:51 < quaid> we will probably move to a rotating schedule of some kind, so at\ least we are kind in revolution 19:51 < quaid> </meeting> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
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