> ----- Forwarded message from Rahul Sundaram <rahulsundaram@xxxxxxxxx> ----- > > From: Rahul Sundaram <rahulsundaram@xxxxxxxxx> > To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx> > Hi > > > > > here's a solution -- can we post the mailing list etiquette rules > > somewhere under fedora.redhat.com? that way, any time some dimwit > > joins this club and decides he likes his personal way of doing things, > > he can be pointed in short order at the *fedora*-approved etiquette > > list. at which point, that should be the end of the debate. > > > Please do this. Write a set of guidelines and submit it to the docs > list. we can have a format set of guidelines approved by Redhat. > Everyone else lets kill this thread. I am pretty sure everything that > is supposed to be covered has already been done so. > > -- > Regards, > Rahul Sundaram File actually attached this time. Sorry. Please see the attached file. This version is in html. I will convert it to the required format, and remove the extraneous references to the RedHat hat install, replacing them with "fedora" as needed. Is there any document I should read in order to understand what guideline, formats and specifications are being applied to the Fedora docs? Jeff Kinz -- nux/Open Source. Your base belongs to you, free, forever. Idealism: "Realism applied over a longer time period" http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/ <a href=http://kinz.org>http://kinz.org</a> <a href=http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/2763> http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/2763</a> Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. ~ ~ ~ ~Title: The RedHat Install List User's Guide
Welcome to the RedHat Install List (RHIL) Unofficial User's Guide
Contents
I. What is this Guide?
Officially
Unofficially
III. How Do I Get Help?
Have a good subject line
Have a clear description of the problem
Tell what you've tried and what you've found out.
Don't rant/tirade
Follow the list email formatting guidelines
Say thanks
Quote appropriately
Community Standards
Don't be an email virus carrier
IV. Fixing Your Email Program
Microsoft's Outlook and Outlook Express:
Microsoft Exchange:
Microsoft Internet Mail
Netscape Navigator
Netscape Communicator
V. Be Extra Smart at Linux! (the Secret Guru section!)
VI. Unsubscribing
VII. Blames and Credits
VIII. Feedback
Section I - What is this Guide?
This is an unofficial guide to the RedHat Install Mailing List. It was put together by some of the volunteers on the RedHat install list to outline how to use this list.
This guide is a simple, condensed collection of email list etiquette most of which has been around for years and can be applied to almost every mail list on the internet.
So, what exactly is the RH (RedHat), install list ?
Officially:
The RH web page at https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/ officially describes this list as: "Getting started with Red Hat Linux"
Unofficially:
This list is a group of volunteers who donate their time and knowledge assisting people to get Linux running on their computers. This covers a lot of ground and very few things seem to be out of bounds as long as they are somehow remotely related to getting Linux or some part of Linux or something that came with Linux running on your computer.
FYI - Posts from RedHat employees are fairly rare here. This is not part of RedHat's technical support, but RedHat does provide the mailing list and servers that make this list possible.
The information in the mailing list is the product of RedHat users and system admins--very little comes from RedHat itself.
The folks who contribute here are doing it on their own time and can't necessarily give an immediate answer. Be patient and make sure you've described your problem clearly.
Finally, if you think you can help someone, by all means chime in! This is considered one of the best lists around and that's because LOTS of people, from rank newbies to old farts like the co-authors, contribute. If you get help, pass it on!
Section II - What Can I Do Here?
This list is for when you have a problem getting RH Linux running on your computer. You have two goals: 1) get the right people to read your email; and 2) give them enough information to understand what your problem is.
It's an install list -- if your problem is not related to installation (either the entire OS or pieces of it), see if there's a more appropriate list at http://www.redhat.com/mailing-lists (in particular, note the separate lists for things like kickstart and so on.)
Section III - How Do I Get Help?
Post a message! To help make sure you get the help you need, follow these 12 suggestions:
1. Have a good subject line
Always have a subject line on your email and make sure that the subject line is as specific as possible. For example a subject line that reads "HELP!!!!" or "Help me get an 'A'" is not letting the folks who read the list know anything about what your problem is. A subject line that reads "Install fails right after the fraznitz screen, help!" is much more likely to catch the eye of someone who also had a problem with the fraznitz screen and knows the answer to your problem.
2. Have a clear description of the problem
This is harder than #1 but still essential. State as clearly as you can what happened in the order it happened. Don't sweat it much. Almost everybody who asks for help here gets answered. Just try to get all the salient facts in.
3. Tell what you've tried and what you've found out
What you've tried and what happened after you tried it can be the trigger for someone else to remember the solution to your problem. It also prevents people from wasting their time by writing up information you already know.
4. Don't rant and tirade
The Frustration Factor: "I can't get the @#$%* to work! What the #@%*& is wrong with this $#^@% Linux thing?"
It's OK. Frustration with computers is a Universal experience. We all understand it because we've all been there ourselves. But, please don't continually tirade or rant about how lousy etc. Linux is. The folks in this list are all helping you out of their own goodwill. You want them to help you, not resent you.
This list is not a place for rantings, ravings, personal attacks, flame wars or foul language. In fact, the odds are that anyone engaging in such behavior will be studiously ignored in ANY future postings, whether their new message is about a real problem or not. They've already proven their tendencies--we won't abet them. This is not the forum for twelve-year-old-style tantrums or whining.
5. Follow the list email formatting guidelines
Email formatting is very simple: plain text, around 72 columns wide. Please avoid posting in HTML or MIME. Here's why -
As the author of an email you have no idea what kind of email client the people who get your email will be using (an email client is the program used to receive and read the messages). This means that there is no way of knowing if someone's email program can display your email. If it can't - they can't help you.
With the new wireless devices and PDAs that are becoming popular (yes, with Linux too), this problem is becoming even more of an issue. Plain text is the only email format you can use that guarantees it will readable by all the people who receive it.
Many of the most helpful and knowledgeable people on this list won't even read your email if its in HTML or MIME format. Sorry, it's nothing personal, just too much of a hassle and a security danger for them. (HTML/MIME mail can have embedded info gathering or virus dangers).
Many people around the world have metered internet access where they pay for each byte of data they receive, including their email, on a per-byte basis. MIME and HTML formatting increase the size of messages but don't add any information to them. Many Linux users won't even open HTML/MIME email messages because of the extra security dangers and work involved.
Because of these issues you should not send HTML- or MIME-based email to this list. (and you should avoid it whenever possible in general). As a further benefit, not using HTML or MIME when you don't have to will actually speed up how fast your email goes out--especially if you use a dialup internet connection.
What's that you say? Your email program does the HTML or MIME formatting automatically and you don't know how to stop it ? See section IV (just below) for help in fixing that.
6. Say Thanks!
If you get an answer that helps, thank the person who helped (a pat on the back is ALWAYS welcome!)
7. Summarize and report your successes
If someone's suggestion fixes your problem, it's useful to say thanks publicly to let others know that it worked so that they might also avoid that specific problem in the future. But don't stop there -- if you learned something tricky in the process, mention it so others can see that as well.
In other words, don't just say, "Thanks, that did the trick." Rather, you should say something like, "Thanks, that worked, and by the way, here's something else that came up during my troubleshooting that others might want to know that's related..."
8. Quote appropriately
When replying to a message, quote the message you are replying to partially. Include the portion of the message you're responding to FIRST, THEN your response follows. This keeps the flow of the message content consistent and easier to follow.
9. Community Standards
Occasionally folks in the list will ask others to post email in a certain way, like this guide is doing. Here's why:
This is a quote from Eric Raymond and Rick Moen's paper on "How to ask for help the smart way":
"Community standards do not maintain themselves: They're maintained by people actively applying them, visibly, in public. Don't whine that all criticism should have been conveyed via private mail: That's not how it works. Nor is it useful to insist you've been personally insulted when someone comments that one of your claims was wrong, or that his views differ. Those are loser attitudes."
10. Don't be an Email Virus Carrier
If you use Outlook for email, it is gently suggested that you scrap Outlook (in any flavor) for mail use and get Netscape or Mozilla or Eudora or some Windows mail client that is NOT affected by virii. If you must use Outlook, then GET AND APPLY ALL of the patches available. Remember : "Outlook may not be a virus, but it SURE AS HELL is a carrier!" Rick Stevens (one of the list's busy contributors) runs a mail service and processes over 18 million messages a day. He says that fully 20-25% of that traffic is various viruses that are propagated by Outlook and its kin.
11. Legal/Confidential Signatures and Disclaimers
If you can, please avoid attaching those legal disclaimers that your corporate lawyers keep dreaming up. First off, they're unenforceable (and you can tell them that). Second, email by its very nature is NOT secure and if you believe it is, we have a bridge for sale. Email is like sending a postcard--anyone can read it. If you have confidential information, then use something like PGP and encrypt it.
Third, it's silly to have a 3-line request for help followed by a 15-line legal disclaimer telling the entire mailing list that your public posting is incredibly private, sensitive and confidential and that if, somehow, we received this posting by mistake, we should drop everything we're doing and let you know. We all have better things to do. Really. Besides, simply posting such a message to a public bulletin board pretty much throws out any pretense of confidentiality, doesn't it?
12. Safe Threads
Don't start a new thread by replying to a previous unrelated post and
changing the subject field. this messes up the threading of related posts. if
you want to start a new thread, start with a brand-new posting.
13. Autoresponders
If you use an autoresponder on your mail client, please set up a rule that
keeps it from responding to messages from the list. We see a ton of
these messages every month as people set up autoresponders to cover them while
they run off to exotic places on vacation. Just make sure you set up a filter
that will ignore any "Reply-To" headers that contain
"redhat-install-list@xxxxxxxxxx" BEFORE sending the
autoresponse.
Section IV - Fixing Your Email Program
Instructions on how to configure the five most popular email programs to NOT send HTML/MIME are given below. If these instructions don't work or if your client isn't listed, try looking at this web page:
http://expita.com/nomime.html (go down 2 or 3 pages for the list)
The Microsoft email programs (Outlook, Exchange, Internet Mail and News) and newer versions of Netscape are set by default to do MIME/HTML encoding of all messages. You can change this setting to send plain text email, the preferred format the world over, by following the procedures detailed here.
Please note, changing this setting will affect all mail you send using your email program (except for Exchange users).
For Microsoft's Outlook and Outlook Express:
1. Select the "Tools->Options" menu item
2. Click on the "Send" tab in the Mail sending format section
and choose "Plain Text" (instead of HTML)
3. Click on "OK"
For Microsoft Exchange:
1. Open the address book
2. Highlight the list address entry that reads "redhat-install-list@xxxxxxxxxx"
3. Right-click on that address and choose "Properties"
4. Click on the "Send Options" button
5. Disable the "MIME" and "HTML" options
6. Click on "OK"
For Microsoft Internet Mail:
1. Choose "Options->Mail Sending Format"
2. Click on "Settings" to open the "Plain Text Settings with MIME Message
Format" dialog box
3. Change "Encode Text Using: Quoted Printable" to "None"
4. Click on "OK"
For Netscape Navigator:
1. Choose the "Options->Mail and News Preferences" menu
option
2. On the "Composition" tab, select "Allow 8-bit" (instead of
"Mime Compliant (Quoted Printable)")
3. Click on "OK"
For Netscape Communicator:
1. Choose the "Preferences->Mail & Groups, Messages" menu
option
2. Deselect "By default, send HTML messages"
3. Click on OK
The above information was found at home.attbi.com/~dcass/atmfaq/mime.htm which is a dead link. It has been modified from its original format as needed for this document.
Section V - Be Extra Smart at Linux! (the Secret Guru section!)
Eric S. Raymond, Author of "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" wrote a document about how to ask smart questions. Its a superbly helpful document and it can be found here:
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
There is a special web site that lets you search for information about Linux. It's hosted by Google, one of the best, if not the best search engines on the web. It's found here:
And one more:
All of the Linux HOW-TO documents and such can be found here:
The Linux Documentation Project
Two of the most often asked questions on the RHIL is, "How do I unsubscribe?"
Let us start by reminding you that whenever you join virtually ANY mailing list
(not just the RHIL), you will be sent a "Welcome" message. Read that
message and SAVE IT SOMEWHERE! It usually contains necessary
information--including instructions on how to unsubscribe. That being
said, let us continue.
1. "How do I unsubscribe?"
Go to the https link shown here:
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
At the BOTTOM of that page (you may have to scroll down), find the box labeled "Edit Options". Put your email address in the box to its left and then click the box that says "Edit Options".
On the TOP of the next page put your password in the first box (the one to
the left of the box that says "Unsubscribe"). Then click the box that says
"Unsubscribe". That's all.
2. "What if I don't know my password?"
You did save the "Welcome" message, didn't you? Your password is in there. However, since you're asking this question, go to the https link shown here:
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/redhat-install-list
At the BOTTOM of that page, Find the box labeled "Edit Options". Put your email address in the box to its left and then click the box that says "Edit options".
On the next page find the box that says "Email My Password To Me" and click on it. That's all. A copy of your password will be mailed to the address you entered. When you get it, follow the instructions for #1 above.
Section VII - Blames and Credits
| Blames and Flames | ==> | Jeff Kinz - Guide maintainer |
| Credit for knowledge | ==> | Rick Stevens - A frequent contributor to RHIL |
| Also Starring | ==> | Robert P. J. Day - Another Happy RHILer |
Please send your polite suggestions and additions to
j kinz at ultranet dot com
(de-mangle the above for the correct email address)
version=" :015: " # %%D04_01_15_11_05%% %%HREDL%%
What is that weird line just above? Its a revision number, and date of last edit plus some extra junk that lets my editor identify and modify those strings. JJK
Web version: 110602001 by Rick Stevens
