jeff wrote:
Hans de Goede wrote:
jeff wrote:
Hans de Goede wrote:
Really, arguing that Fedora's stance is inconsistent, while in
reality yours is doesn't gain you much respect. Either:
1) all firmware is software and must be free in which case support
for evil hardware which comes with the firmware embedded must be
removed from linux-libre!
No, because the goal of linux-libre is to have a kernel which doesn't
distribute non-free software.
Oh, but promoting the usage and buying of devices which contain
non-free firmware by supporting those is ok,
When have I ever done that??? You're just putting words in my mouth.
Try reading my sentence again "promoting ... by supporting", as the
kernel-libre package still supports hardware that contains non free firmware it
is promoting the use of that hardware by _supporting_ that hardware.
because it isn't non-free firmware that is evil. It is the
distributing of non-free firmware that is evil. Yes a very consistent
and logical pov for which I applaud you!
I have never used the word evil wrt software. Again, you are putting
words in my mouth.
Evil is indeed my choice of words, I use it as a nice short way to describe
everything wrong with non-free software, nothing more and nothing less.
Basicly the message you are sending is: people please by devices with
firmware in rom, preferably otp rom, because then certainly there is
no evil.
That's the message I'm sending?>?!? Again, you're just putting words in
my mouth. I've never said anything of the sort.
Well, you want Fedora to change so that it will only work out of the box with
devices which have the firmware in rom, so yes that is the message you are sending.
We're talking about
* * * SOFTWARE THE FEDORA PROJECT IS ---> DISTRIBUTING <--- * * *
That is one vision, another vision is we are talking about a bunch of bits,
which are part of the hardware. In some cases these bits which are part of the
hardware happen to be stored in a non-volatile storage on the hardware and put
on a non-volatile medium which is not physically part of the hardware, in these
cases the operating system needs to get this bits from the non-volatile medium
and put them in the volatile medium in the hardware before it can use the
hardware. That doesn't make these bits any more or less part of the hardware as
when they were in a rom.
So what you call software I call part of the hardware, see word game again.
Note I'm not against the idea of having a variant of Fedora which does not
contain firmware for those who want that, I actually support that idea!
But saying that Fedora cannot call itself a Free OS because it doesn't match
your definition of Free seriously rubs me the wrong way. Also these kind of
posts are not helping your case at all, they only serve to alienate the few
supporters you have within the Fedora development community.
Regards,
Hans
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