Ok I am running on fumes watching a load balancer and a router fight over who has the right routes.. and so read up on the current long debate. What is the problem we are trying to fix? >From reading all the emails, the issue looks to be summed up as 1) How do I as Joe Random user help make the distribution more like I want it? 2) How do I as Joe Random user feel like I matter if I am not a developer, am not a QA person, am not a documenter, etc? Some people see the answer as being adding websites to gather data of what people want so that developers would know what ideas people want or do not. Others see the answer as the user has to be active in the community to make a change, and that polls etc are passive-aggressive methods of finding things out (the old webnote on the Fedora fridge versus an honest discussion of why a feature should or should not be there) The bigger issue is that I am not sure people really know how to be involved, and modern society really teaches a lot of people to be not involved in things. We need to find ways to retrain people to be involved, to be less anonymous, less irrelevant, and less immeasurable (to steal from Patrick Lencioni via John Poelstra http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/miserable/ [Thanks John for finding this and pointing it out.]) Developers know how to be involved.. they hack on things until they get done.. no matter what that thing and whether or not it gets included (they can always find some distro that makes it included somewhere). Artists and writers know how to be involved.. but how does someone's dad who just downloads a DVD and plays around with it a couple of hours a night know how to be involved? How do we change a person who is trained to be a consumer into a producer? And a producer of what, especially when he feels that all he has is questions about is he doing this or that correct. A second question that I see from this is... if I am say a Fedora ambassador, triager, artist, developer etc how do I influence the parts of the system that I am not immediately part of (not part of my monkey circle so to speak?). How do ambassadors, artists, triagers help developers see what would be useful for them and vice versa? Those are the more complex part of a society especially a society where I may never personally see the other people beyond an anonymous IRC nick or email address. And I think they are the questions any debate or solutions should be about. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
