Andrew Farris wrote:
Chris Snook wrote:
Andrew Farris wrote:
Benjamin Kreuter wrote:
No, but I have had problems with pulseaudio and arts on the same
system. I wasn't around to hear the discussion about including
pulseaudio in F8...why did we go down that road?
Maybe because pulseaudio is to arts what playstation is to atari?
Now I'm a big fan of atari, but its old. Pulseaudio is very cool,
just not perfect yet.
Perhaps a better analogy would be 3DO to Atari. Pulseaudio has a
really cool design, but arts actually makes noise come out of my
speakers. After dozens of F8 installs on 5 different machines, I have
completely given up on getting sound to work with KDE. If I want
sound, I have F7 and my old Mac. I imagine Ubuntu would work fine as
well.
Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled that the Gnome developers are pushing
ahead with all this neat stuff, but I wish they'd just let KDE be KDE
if they're not even going to bother testing it. Every Red Hat/Fedora
release since Red Hat 9 has had glaring KDE bugs not found in any
other distribution.
-- Chris
You don't think that might have to do with the VERY small group of
people attempting to keep it working while pushing the envelope with the
newest KDE has to offer? There is no question that gnome gets more
attention in Fedora, but more attention for KDE and getting things like
pulseaudio to 'just work' would probably be more likely with more people
working on it. What the few do right now is amazing to even keep KDE in
the game. IMO it has everything to do with just not making it work; not
with gnome doing their thing...
On the contrary, the Gnome developers are actively breaking
otherwise-functional KDE code, and have been for years. In Red Hat 9,
the bluecurve KDE clock couldn't even stay synched with the system clock
under load. That bug made me 50 minutes late for an exam. In RHEL 3,
startkde was modified, for reasons unclear to me, in a way that caused
it to fail to launch KDE when using an afs homedir under a UP kernel,
though it worked by accident on SMP kernels. With FC4, I got so fed up
with the myriad problems that I used the kde-redhat repository, and
while it was at times a dependency nightmare, the software worked fine,
because it was much closer to the upstream KDE code than the bastardized
in-distro version.
I have absolutely no interest in making Pulseaudio work with KDE. I
just want sound to work with KDE. Unlike Pulseaudio, which has never
once correctly made noise come out of my speakers (though I once got
buzzing), arts actually does that, when not interfered with. Unlike the
Fedora Gnome developers, the upstream KDE developers actually notice
when stuff in KDE breaks, so the upstream KDE code tends to work pretty
well until the Fedora Gnome developers start breaking it in the name of
getting more people to work on it.
SELinux has actually caused me more headaches than Gnomified KDE, but
the SELinux developers actually respond to bug reports and fix them,
sometimes within hours. With SELinux, the process works, and the result
has been steadily improving quality. With Gnomified KDE, a Gnome
developer decides that the correct fix is to make KDE do things the
Gnome way, and puts the bug at the very end of his todo list, where is
remains until bugzilla closes the bug a year later after the release
goes EOL. The process is inaccessible to volunteer work from KDE users
who are unfamiliar with Gnome code, which is why so few people are
working on KDE in Fedora. The correct solution is to let KDE do things
the KDE way, and keep Gnome from interfering. This will allow
volunteers in the community to actively participate, and the worst-case
scenario is that we get stuck with raw upstream KDE, which would be far
better than we have today.
-- Chris
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