On 1/21/25 8:00 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:20:50AM +0000, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
I understand that these are challenges, and they are increasing because
there are so many upcoming ecosystems which build their own distribution
channels and tools, be it Go, Rust, Julia, even Python to some degree
(think pip, conda and the like).
And indeed, as Jan's reply shows, once we allow bundling in general for
one language people will want it for other language ecosystems, and
"rightly" so, at least as long as the same reasoning applies.
Yes, I think we should apply the logic consistently across languages.
I _very_ much disagree with this. I disagree with the reasoning that
we should allow bundling for consistency, and I also disagree with the
reasoning raised by other people that we must _not_ allow bundling because
that'll create a slippery slope to use it everywhere.
As discussed in the other part of the thread, more reasonable language
ecosystems deal very well with unbundling. (Or rather, don't do
bundling in the first place.) For Python and Rust we certainly don't
want to do bundling. (In particular, for Python pip and conda were
mentioned. Those are interesting examples. Conda is dying. OTOH pip
and the rest of the Python ecosystem switched to declarative
dependency specification to allow interoperability with distributions.
So in fact it is a counterexample to the statements that modern
language ecosystems are incompatible with traditional packaging.)
Zbyszek
Exactly. The Python and Rust ecosystems are mostly maintainable in their
current forms, despite the large number of dependencies, because they
have proper dependency metadata, adhere to (somewhat) standardized
versioning (Rust more so than Python with its more strict Semantic
Versioning adherence), and have sane tooling and a single, flat package
registry/namespace.
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