Wiki - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ThirdPartyLegacyJdks Discussion Topic - https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f42-change-proposal-third-party-legacy-jdks-system-wide/132049 This is a proposed Change for Fedora Linux. This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee. = Adjust java/java-devel requires to multi-vendor JDK world and replace legacy JDKs by third party Eclipse Temurin repositories = == Summary == Adjust java/java-devel `provides/requires` to multivendor world and obsolete all non-system LTS JDKs (java-1.8.0-openjdk, java-11-openjdk, java-17-openjdk in time of writing) by appropriate, properly integrating, RPMs from Eclipse Adoptium repositories. == Owner == * Name: [[User:jvanek| Jiri Vanek]] * Email: <jvanek@xxxxxxxxxx> * Product: java and java stack * Responsible WG: java-sig (java and java-maint)(which no longer exists) * rcm ticket: https://pagure.io/releng/issue/TODO * named side tag ticket: tbd === Expected schedule === * Eclipse Temurin repositories already exists: https://adoptium.net/installation/linux/#_centosrhelfedora_instructions * RPMs can be easily integrated. Remaining issues are summed up at: https://github.com/adoptium/installer/issues/848 ; but they do not block immediate usage * RPM with repository on review: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2313339 * JDKs will be obsoleted from f42 onwards only. The Repository may be available also for older Fedoras, as they can coexists. * to keep en system-jdk idea as it is, the requires of "java", "java-devel" and "java-headless" were revisited ** those will be encapsulated them to "javapackages-tools" and "javapavckages-local" which handles system JDK anyway in user independent way (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Decouple_system_java_setting_from_java_command_setting#Summary) ** the documentation of https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Java/#_buildrequires_and_requires will be updated ** all non-system LTS JDKs will be orphaned or replaced by obsoleting package with possible dependency on the repository wrapper) As 'Change Checkpoint: Proposal submission deadline (System Wide Changes) Tue 2024-12-24' and 'Branch Fedora Linux 42 from Rawhide Tue 2025-02-04' is in reasonable time, we hope to finish all peacefully (as all initial tests are already finished). == Detailed Description == {{admon/important | JDK TEAM NOTE: | in el10 there is only one jdk, however, the non binding java/java-devel, and all the whole "system jdk in javapackages-tools" is quite a precedent for it, and considering we will be updating system jdk in el aprox 3x, we should take exceptional care here, as it may solve - or bite back - the issue we are facin gin el9 now}} Fedora currently ships: * java-1.8.0-openjdk (LTS) * java-11-openjdk (LTS) * java-17-openjdk (LTS) * java-21-openjdk (LTS), system JDK * java-latest-openjdk (STS) - currently JDK22, soon JDK23, in time of finish JDK24 * In future, java-25-openjdk will fork from java-latest-openjdk, and will become system jdk, as jdk21 before (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Java21#java-21-openjdk_as_the_system_JDK_in_F40) and jdk17 before that and so on... ** java-21-openjdk will then follow the fate of java-17-openjdk, 11 and 1.8.0 as written lower. We, OpenJDK maintainers in Fedora, would like to orphan/close/obsolete non system JDKs in favor of Temurin JDKs. Adoptium Temurin (https://adoptium.net/temurin/releases/) is de-facto standard build of JDK, with huge support and compatibility, and all current Fedora JDK contributors are long term members and contributors to Temrun JDK (and its RPMs). Adoptium is dedicated, to keep Temurin RPMs well integrated and healthy for Fedora. Adoptium efforts are tracked in https://github.com/adoptium/installer/issues/848 . Adoptium is maintaining their repos (https://adoptium.net/installation/linux/#_centosrhelfedora_instructions) for ages, and they're heavily used. Practically We see several approaches: * simply orphan jdk 8,11 and 17 (in f42 the only system JDK will be 21) ** However past (orphaning of jdk 6 and 7 ) had learned us a lesson that average packager (despite being experienced java/C programmer) is unable to maintain OpenJDK packages * orphan the packages and close them. enhance https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/installing-java/ that non system JDK can be installed after enabling the adoptium repos (https://adoptium.net/installation/linux/#_centosrhelfedora_instructions) * orphan the packages and close them. ** provide rpm which will contain the 3d party repository\ ** enhance https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/installing-java/ informing about that * provide rpm which will contain the 3d party repository\ ** integrate it with gnome software and and fedora setup of 3rd party repos ** we would like try to do an fluent transition - so the current 8,11 and 17 packages will also install the rpm with repository files and thus once we remove jdk8-17 (or future) from distribution, they will be smoothly updated by temurin jdk (with check if other 3rd party repos are enabled) java-latest-openjdk remain also maintained in Koji, as it is necessary testing ground for future system JDK. It was never an intention to repack a binary Temurin blob in Koji (just in case anybody will think about it). It is not an intention to get rid of maintaining System JDK. However once JDK will no longer be System jdk in any live Fedora, it will be orphaned/closed in favor of Temurin JDK. So once f42 will go out we will continue to maintain only jdk 23+21. In some short time, we will maintain 25+21, a bit later 26+25+21... And once 25 will become system JDK in all live fedoras, we will ditch 21 in favor of Temurins === java packages `requires` mass change === The javastack (via javapackages-tools) will be reworked to: *encapsulate dependencies on system jdk (or any other koji-based jdk) to javapackages tools *allow any application to work on any, even 3rd party java This should be achieved via following chnages to reqires changes and generated changes: *`javapackages-local` for packages with `ant` or no build - `requires java-%{system}-openjdk-devel` (`%jpackage_script`) **`javapavckages-local%VERSIONED` for older ones **For slower transitions to newer jdks *`javapackages-tools` **`requires java-%{system}-openjdk-headless` **`javapackages-tools%VERSIONED` for older ones **Do not requires java-%{system}-openjdk ***'''Will not be added''' - satisfied by Javapackages-tools with java || java-xyz-openjdk requires * Requires generator which crawls through launchers of packages (including `jpackage_script` ) which source `java_functions` ** will be pointing to used jre headless **`%jpackage_script` is implicitly affected by generator and will generate requires to corresponding `%{build_time_sdk's}-headless jre` (which is currently system jdk, which is jdl 21, unless specified differently) *Other packages will need to manually adjust from `java-%{system}-openjdk-/headless/devel` to `java-(system+1)-openjdk-/headless/devel` **This affects mass rebuilds (instead of just release++ a java-xy-openjdk must do xy++). Positive si that there is more time to do that ** Indirectly this is '''not enforcing''' new system jdk when new LTS is promoted in Fedora ***Otherwise generic `java-devel` will no longer satisfy new systemjdk after system bump *`JAVA_HOME` remains main override (rpm generated requires are not affected (maybe todo?)) https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/packaging-guidelines/Java/ will be adjusted accordingly the packages built by pure javac or just build requires java without any javapackages tools will be adjusted manually '''Note that this is a much smaller effort than it looks like. 99% of packages are living with generated provides, and will get the change automagically. The remaining - approx 10 - packages will be handled manually''' == Feedback == todo == Benefit to Fedora == The number of legacy JDKs have grown, and hand in hand with that the number of their usages dropped to minimum. It seems there is no longer any need to maintain them, as their usage is only highly specialized. By providing 3rd party repo, we allow the specialized use-cases to continue to exist. By discontinuing their build in koji we will untie our hands to move forward and focus on future JDKs. Also we will enable fedora to provide highly stable, often updated, secure, 100% integrate-able and passionately maintained builds of legacy JDKs, which will serve as proper replacement if really needed. As a side effect of the changes in `provides/requires`, we will allow every JDK, from any vendor, which follows unofficial packaging JEP (which covers java and javac alternatives master and java/java-devel provides) to be effectively part of system if wanted, and not just silent companion. == Scope == * Proposal owners: ** will provide and maintain the 3rd party repo - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2313339 ** will help to integrate it with gnome-software and other 3rd party repos units ** will orphan or replace (based on agreement on `details` ** will update java packages documentation ** we will fix all the direct requires java/java-devel (approx 14 only) ** we will communicate with packagers of known, remaining packages which do not run with system jdk (approx 5 ) * Other developers: ** javapackages-tools, maven and ant maintainers are already on board to to totally decuple system jdk from installed java * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issues #Releng issue number] ** I think the mass rebuild will not be needed * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) ** java packaging guidelines will be updated * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Alignment with the Fedora Strategy: ** This proposal is aligned with Fedora mission - to be on top of technology. We want to focus on newer JDKs, and still provide comfortable access to legacy ones, == Upgrade/compatibility impact == No meter what approach will be selected at the end, there will be upgrade impact. * in ideal usecase, the JDKs from koji simply replaces themselves by those from Eclipse Temurin * in worst case, user will just get disabled 3rd party repo and updated docs. In all cases system jdk will remain on machine, and in all cases legacy jdks will be replaced or disappear. I would really be unhappy to simply discontinue them, and leave unmaintained software on target boxes. == Early Testing (Optional) == Do you require 'QA Blueprint' support? Y == How To Test == No JDK on system # get system without java # update to next fedora # no JDK should be there Only system JDK on system and future STS jdk # get system with system jdk only # update to next fedora # JDK should be there Only legacy JDK # get system withotu any JDK # manually install any of legacy LTS jdks # update to next fedora # the legacy jdk should not be there or should be gone System JDK and legacy JDK # get system with system jdk only # manually install any of legacy LTS jdks # update to next fedora # system JDK should be there # the legacy jdk should not be there or should be gone == User Experience == As already described, basic users should not notice change. Advanced users should not lost. == Dependencies == Several (less then 10) packages will lost theirs main dependencies. Those list will be enumerated. Those packages will need to orphan and move to different kind of distribution or update. Main java stack - the packages depending on system java/java-devel/java-headless/java-packages-tools and similar, should not notice change. == Contingency Plan == * Contingency mechanism: If we fails to introduce Eclipse Temurin JDKs repo, we will simply orphan legacy JDKs as written earlier * Contingency deadline: 1. December 2024 * Blocks release? Yes == Documentation == Only eclipse temurin install pages and java packages guidelines * todo link1 * todo link2 == Release Notes == tbd -- Aoife Moloney Fedora Operations Architect Fedora Project Matrix: @amoloney:fedora.im IRC: amoloney -- _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list -- devel-announce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-announce-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel-announce@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue -- _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
