On Mon, 24 Apr 2023 at 09:38, Simo Sorce <simo@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sat, 2023-04-22 at 12:16 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Sat, 2023-04-22 at 10:37 -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 02:30:45PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2023-04-21 at 23:20 +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > For lists that are active, the split is confusing — when should
> > > > > something be on the packaging list rather than devel? What happens when
> > > > > something is related to both Cloud and Server, or Workstation and KDE?
> > > > > One can post to both lists, but if someone replies and isn’t subscribed
> > > > > to both, the conversation gets split.
> > > >
> > > > Do Fedora mailing lists reject mail from non-members, and redirect
> > > > follow-ups?
> > >
> > > Many lists *hold* mail from non-members, because mailing lists get tons
> > > of spam. So the mail won't get through until an admin approves it. That
> > > might happen right away...or it might happen in two days, when the mail
> > > is no longer relevant. We can't really just let all mails from non-
> > > members through because...spam.
> >
> > Right. I don't think we have many (or possibly any) lists that still
> > hold email from non-members. The flood of spam is just too high for that
> > for the last N years. So, almost all our lists are set to reject non
> > member posts. :(
>
> ah, I hadn't noticed that change :/ I could've sworn I still sometimes
> get hold notices when I send meeting announcements to lists I'm not
> subscribed to...
In theory we could make it simpler by sending back a message that
requires just a click to subscribe/authorize the email by a real user,
if they intend to do so, on their first email to a mailing list.
We could also allow posting to other mailing lists if the email address
is subscribed to any other list.
We had this running for a bit where we would send back emails saying this is held. 99% of the emails would then go sit in queue on bastion slowing down regular deliveries. We are talking hundreds of emails a day on 'good' days and tens of thousands on 'bad' days. Trying to deal with this is a full time job that no one is paid (and my volunteer time is limited) to do. Trying to fix in better ways is usually a massive project because you need to think out the total email flow plan and needs. Email is no longer the old 'set up a mail server and let it live'. It is 'why do we have 10,000 queued emails today?' 'why aren't redhat.com emails getting delivered today?' 'oh look 2 new DNS features to 'deal' with SPAM', 'oh spamassassin needs new setup and fixes', 'why is email stuck here?' 'why is X sending email to google.com but we are getting errors from gandhi.net or protonmail.com'.
The software which runs mailing lists is also much more complicated than it was 20 years ago. You need to deal with backend databases, caching web servers, internal search engines, message tooling, spam deletion, account acceptance, etc. That takes constant learning and dedicated 'brain' space for admins to keep it working.
In order to keep email working, it takes dedicated and hard work and decisions to make it happen.
I realize this would require working on mailman and that is probably
something we do not want to spend time on ...
After all you have to subscribe to discourse as well to be able to post
... so there is no huge difference here.
--
Simo Sorce
RHEL Crypto Team
Red Hat, Inc
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