On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 05:07:28PM +0200, Aleksandra Fedorova wrote:
> No, not really. I advised you to look into it, because you may actually get
> more from it personally, than you currently expect. I haven't proposed it to
> become a required Fedora activity, I gave you the unsolicited advice. Which
> maybe I shouldn't have.
What kicked off this thread was a proposal to make "checking out" (and
then actually utilizing) discussion.f.o a *required* activity to
participate in Fedora development.
> And now you try to tell me that "coolness" is defined by numbers. Sorry, I
> don't agree. I don't need everyone in the world to work on Linux
> distribution. I don't want majority of people to work on Linux distribution.
> I don't even need "more than in Ubuntu" people to work on Fedora Linux
> distribution. That is not the point at all, and it is not what makes things
> cool.
Numbers/engagement/etc was one of the justifications behind this
proposal to ditch mailing lists, and my point was that "numbers" was a
pretty worthless metric because of the very reasons you just listed.
That said, I don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that the
"coolness" factor strongly affects the numbers, because people follow
the funding. Distros, like most(all) other infrastructure, were never
"cool" in that big-picture context. I think that's a good thing, as it
means those participating are more likely to have a genuine passion for
it.
> But with my Fedora Ambassador hat on I can tell you that the problem we see
> right now is not that we don't have people coming to Fedora. We have a
> problem helping people to connect to where the work is happening in a way
> that they can contribute.
Of course. But this also goes for those that are _already_ contributing.
> And this includes both mentoring them to be able to contribute, but also
> accepting the fact that new people can bring new ideas, and we should
> provide them space to work on them and not just expect them to follow and do
> what they were told to do.
This also goes for those that are already contributing. It's not just
about the new people.
> The middle doesn't magically appear out of nowhere. It appears when you
> build paths for newbies to grow into it. And it it sort of responsibility of
> the current middle to grow the next one.
I disagree; it's the _responsibility_ of the *leaders* to grow (and
sustain!) the middle. Ultimately this comes down to defining the sort
of culture the community is expected to have -- and the tools must be
chosen to support/enable that culture.
(It's not the middle's responsibility because they are acting mostly
individually and mostly powerless; their main power comes from the
ballot box, except in rare situations where someone rises up through
sheer volume of meritocrous contributions)
> We think the communication channels change is one of the initiatives which
> helps with that. Mentorship is the other.
Mentorship is necessary (from leaders to the middle, and the middle to
the newbs) but doesn't scale well due to the mutual time committment
necessary.
- Solomon
--
Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org (email&xmpp)
@pizza:shaftnet dot org (matrix)
Dowling Park, FL speachy (libra.chat)
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