On 4/13/22 17:11, Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:On 13.4.2022 08:04, David Bold wrote:It seems I must be missing something? Why should we not care about a significant number of our users, just because other OSs have more users? Could you explain that?First of all this is not significant number of Fedora's users ( or in the overall desktop ecosystem ) and secondly as David Cantrell already pointed out downstream distribution should not be expected to jump through hoops to support hardware vendors that are unwilling to participate in the open source Linux ecosystem.What fraction of Fedora users is this?
Is not the question what is an acceptable number in that regard 1
person, hundred, thousand or 1%,5%, 10% and whether or not we want
to increase/decrease that number?
Yes, I agree that Fedora should not have to jump through hoops to support NVIDIA. But at the same time, we need to consider how many users we will be breaking.
Sorry I dont follow, Fedora ( at least to this day ) doesn't come
with the proprietary nvidia drivers installed, nor tests for it or
otherwise supports in any official manner so what is there for us
to break, end users expectations of what we dont ship/support does
not work?
The consumers of such hardware vendors should either stop buying their hardware ( like I did decades ago ) or contribute to opensource projects that provide the required support to be able to use that hardware.The more likely outcome is that such consumers will switch to a distribution that makes it easy for them to use the hardware they have. The vast majority of users lack the skills, resources, or both to contribute to Nouveau or Mesa.
Is that bad thing?
It most certainly is not a bad thing for the Linux/FOSS ecosystem if you think of it as a whole.
What matters to sustain the ecosystem is continues flow of contributions upstream which in turn will trickle back down to every downstream.
Where the source of that contribution comes from is completely irrelevant since everyone will eventually benefit from it so what matters is getting users that will contribute back to the ecosystem one way or another so this whole notion/theater of distributions competing among themselves for a user base is just ridiculous.
What matters is that there aren't any bottle necks in the
downstream process ( like endless levels of bureaucracy, which for
example Hans is proposing to create another level, for a problem
that already has a fixed outcome since at one point in time legacy
bios will be deprecated so why yet another SIG ) which reduce or
otherwise hinders the flow of contributions upstream.
And here's the thing computers were meant to be a tool to make
people's life easier so in the end of the day people will decide
to use whatever *works for them* *themselves*, that might be
windows, OS-X, any of the Linux/*nix distributions or something
else.
And the fact is Fedora is not a distribution for novices end users and never will be nor will it ever be everything to everyone ( but it did a simpler and better job in attempt being just that when it was just generic ).
And the idea that has been circulated that Fedora is supposed to be building third-party kernel modules ( since this security nightmare is being opened why limit it only to nvidia ) and *signing them* without being able to validate the content it is building is a security risk [1] that affects all Fedora users regardless if they use a third party module or not, is just outright ridiculous both from a security point of view as well as it will hinder participation on the projects that are trying to provide an opensource alternatives.Right now, secure boot on Fedora is security theater.
I would rather say Fedora partakes in an industry one.
JBG
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