Sean wrote: > Bryan, > It is not a political agenda or radical to have concluded that open source > is a good thing. Open source is a _very_good_ thing. The idea of the community bonding together in the hope of establishing something for the good of everyone is very noble. But there is a fine line between people or entities _choosing_ and it being _mandated_. You have to be very cautious. One company that will continually receive my praise is Red Hat because it understand the value of _choosing_ to share. And they are a "do as I do" instead of a "do as I say" type of entity. It makes it very easy to point to Red Hat and say -- "see, there's an example!" > Therefore, it is not radical or political to advocate for it as a preference > over closed-source solutions. Agreed. But some people go beyond that. They don't want to stop and understand the other side of the coin. They think of Microsoft or the worst example, not realizing there are very good companies in between. They may not be open source, or only partially open source, but they are dedicated to open standards. People will always differ, but as long as everyone can inter-operate, that's ideal. > Branding someone a radical just because they advocate for one solution > over another is just plain nonsense. No, not *1* solution, but *1* _outlaw_ of another, or federal preference of one. It's a very fine line. Freedom has to be choice. Community has to be choice. Again, it's a very fine line. > Let's not worry too much about being viewed as "community radicals"; Why not? It happens all-the-time. Personally, I run into it all-the- time. I'm arguing for Freedomware (open source, open standards by choice) solutions, and then I get shot down because people lump my concepts in with the Commuware (open source, open standards by mandate) fundamentalists. By not taking the time to differentiate Commerceware/Hostageware from Standardware/Sourceware, you're going the same thing in reverse. There is this absolutist radicalism on _both_ sides. [ And yes, these terms are terms of my own creation. But I haven't seen a better set -- other than the 1-dimensional "open" v. "proprietary" sides that doesn't do much to expose the lack of understanding in both directions. ] > lets just keep making the best open source solutions we know how. I agree very much so. But that doesn't mean by tearing down the whole institution of IP -- or just the portion that affects us. > Those who see the benefits will follow; those who don't, will do > something else. In the majority of cases, especially with commodity concepts and ideas, open source is the ideal. But sometimes, especially in an area with limited development by the community, especially with new concepts, things aren't so commodity. In that case, we can either hope someone will release open standards until the concepts become commodity or open source endeavors mature, or we're stuck with proprietary standards and everyone loses. No one has a right to every idea as it is thought of, but we can appreciate those who care to share it, even when it is still fresh. Especially when the industry is still maturing, and there is a lot at stake in products -- especially when products themselves are obsoleted not only after the moment they are conceived. > In the end, there is very little value to the open source community in > supporting an infestation of binary-hacks into the O/S, You don't have to support it -- not one finger. But you do have to understand why others might want it. That's what the term "freedom to choose" means. > no matter how much you personally believe in the functionality they add. And *I* will decide that for myself. We should let others do the same. Sometimes there is nothing more dangerous than someone saying "we know what's better for you." As much as I may _agree_ with you, I have to step back and realize that _choice_ much be preserved, even when I don't agree with Microsoft or others. Alan Cox wrote: > Nobody has a right to "own" ideas. Al the countries that have patents do so > because they recognized the need to make a pact between the people and the > creator and to distort both markets and natural order in order to foster > progress (in theory). > No I'm just pointing out that the evil federal mandates include good things 8) Yes, as they are necessary. In fact, if someone wants to mandate "open standards," I'm all for it. The problem is when someone decides that "open source" is always better. In many, many cases, yes. But not always. Especially not when someone is willing to pay for an implementation that might not be so commodity in idea, at least not at first. > But this is getting off topic so I'll shut up Well, sometimes I can be a little "radical" in my ideas too, I'll admit that. I'm sure some of my American Libertarian-oriented views probably make various people sick. But I don't think I'm too far from ESR. My biggest fear is to see Linux mandated. It's one thing to standardize on it as a consumer -- even as the federal government (thinking as a consumer). It's another, very scare thing to see it legislated (thinking as a regulator). As much as I would never vote Ralph Nader, he hit it on the nose when he said the US federal government should think more as a consumer, than as a regulator when it comes to Microsoft. We must remember not to demonize the entire commercial software industry as Microsoft. Even if that is a popular way to demonizing something we don't agree with -- use the worst case as an example. It expenses a lot of people and companies "caught in the middle." -- Bryan J. Smith b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx --------------------------------------------------------------------- It is mathematically impossible for someone who makes more than you to be anything but richer than you. Any tax rate that penalizes them will also penalize you similarly (to those below you, and then below them). Linear algebra, let alone differential calculus or even ele- mentary concepts of limits, is mutually exclusive with US journalism. So forget even attempting to explain how tax cuts work. ;-> -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
