Paul Iadonisi wrote: > Again, I haven't seen many, if any people arguing about whether or not > nVidia is designing their cards and drivers to an open standard. I know, I'm the first one who reminded people. Because a _lot_ of the arguments that I have seen made are applying attributes of proprietary standards, which are wholly inappropriate and inapplicable. > But you're starting to sound like Sun's Jonathan Schwartz. To him, > and some others in the industry, open standards matter more than > source code under a Free license. Now I _never_ made that. Why does everything have to be in black and white? All I said is you can_not_ apply the same logic of proprietary standards to proprietary source of open standards. That's all. Again, it's like being a Libertarian and watching Democrats and Republicans sometimes. I try to interject a fact that is not applicable to the demonizing viewpoints of both sides, and what I get is people just taking what I said and demonizing it the same. Same deal here. I see Freedomware proponents using Commerceware/ Hostageware arguments, that are totally and wholly inapplicable, against Standardware. I try to point that out and all of the sudden, people like yourself are saying I'm like Schwartz saying that Open Standards are all that matter. No, I'm not saying that at all! I believe _very_strongly_ in Freedomware. I use it by default. I regularly defend Debian and Fedora on their strict guidelines, and warn of the dangers of not doing such -- especially when it comes to indemfication. E.g., I have a _formal_policy_ in my department that _no_ Knoppix or other Live CD is allowed in the building _except_ those that have been verified to be "pure" Debian, Fedora or another distro that does not have IP issues. I support projects, even if extremely limitedly with a patch of only a few lines here or there, as much as I can. And I am very aware of the dangers of not supporting Freedomware and other community developments. But I'm also an engineer and a realist, and that means I have to make solid arguments when it comes to adoption, and those arguments are 100% based on risk mitigation of many factors. > That's not the case with the Fedora Project and I, at least, am going > to lobby to keep it that way. And I will too! If you didn't notice, in the init thread, I was very much against even looking at Solaris' new init, because of that exact issue. If an end-user is going to make that decision based on all collective risk factors, then it's their choice. But from a development and shipping standpoint, I agree. I think the problem is that once someone started calling anyone who recommends nVidia's driver a "zealot," that's when I thought it was rather hypocritical. And that's when I came into it. Maybe I should not have, especially since this was the "development" list. > And although that doesn't mean deliberately breaking closed source > kernel modules, it does mean having zero concern about whether or > not they break. We leave that completely in the hands of those who > have chosen keep their source closed. Agreed. And I can understand your viewpoint of expected support. Anyone who chooses nVidia's Standardware drivers must contact nVidia for support, and do their "own homework" on configuration management. I.e., people who think "upgrade to the latest" is a valid configuration management are the types of people I _flog_ in person (at least virtually ;-)! > But I know my folly, and that it is *my* folly. I help people to get > it working when the latest kernel update precipitates a another > breakage. Never, NEVER, would I argue that Fedora should make it easy > for VMware to keep their drivers closed. I want pressure to be placed > on VMware to open at least those kernel modules so that core kernel > developers can help when they break. EVEN when it inconveniences me. And I understand your viewpoint, and the collective frustration, on the nVidia issue. I just didn't like the "over-extended comments" made by a few people. One must be cautious when making such. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
