Sean wrote: > If you're going to undermine the integrity of your system and the open > source process at the same time, you're better off just going back and > using Windows. Actually, do whatever you want personally, but don't > spread this bad advice here. Sean also wrote: > It's pretty annoying listening to all the newcomers unthinkingly thumb > their nose at what got us to where we are today. You simply can't move > Linux forward by undermining exactly what makes it important and > successful. You know Sean, you're right. About 5 years ago, I sure wish the entire, multi-_billion_ dollar CAM and EDA markets would have just switched their codebases to Win32/DX once-and-for-all, and gotten away from POSIX/GLX because nVidia shouldn't have even offered a proprietary GLX solution for Linux. No offense Sean, but I think it's pretty annoying to listen to people who don't realize that without a proprietary GLX driver on Linux, a lot of CAM and EDA vendors wouldn't have ported to Linux from Irix, Solaris, etc... and would have just taken the time and effort to port to Win32/DX _never_ to return to POSIX/GLX. That was 5+ years ago, and we have nVidia to thank for keeping these critical applications in the POSIX/GLX space. That's the difference between _choosing_ to work with a community and having this overriding, overbearing "we the community know better than you" attitude that is Step #1 in the communist manifesto. Sometimes there are factors and considerations where a less-than- commodity innovation requires you to understand why there is a need for _temporary_ IP, copyright and other, proprietary concessions. > Anyway, choosing a binary driver has real risks involved. If you value > the data in your computer, you understand the open source process, and > you're thankful for the great O/S that you find yourself using; the > decisions become rather easy. No, this is _very_different_. We are talking a proprietary driver for an _open_standard_, GLX. We're not talking about 3dfx Glide (before 3dfx/nVidia they opened it), or any other proprietary APIs (although there are OpenGL ARB and OpenGL vendor extensions -- which I won't get into, although I agree with 3DLab's viewpoints, but at least it's not as bad as in the DirectX world, God help us ;-). That's what I think people forget. They get on this "open" v. "proprietary" religious war and they don't think about the fact that there are lots and lots of _good_ projects and companies in between GNU/Linux and Microsoft. It's like watching a Democrat and a Republican argue here in the US like they are the _only_2_ viewpoints, forgetting everything from Communist to Libertarians, etc... who just roll their eyes sometimes. Which is why I call the nVidia drivers as "Standardware" in my 2-axis, 4-extreme model: - Freedomware** (Open Source, Open Standard) - Standardware (Proprietary Source, Open Standard) - Sourceware (Open Source, Proprietary Standard -- e.g., IP requirements) - Commerceware (Proprietary Source, Proprietary Standard) [ **NOTE: I must prefer the term "Freedomware" to "Free Software," "Open Source Software" or the latest FOSS acronym. Why? Because you say "FOSS" and people give you a dumb stare. And if you say "Free Software" or "Freeware" or whatever, people get the wrong idea, possibly even "Shareware." But when you say "Freedomware," people instantly think that they are responsible for their part in ensuring it, and that ain't always "free as in cost." ;-] And even in that model, Microsoft doesn't fit. Because Microsoft adovcates what I call "intentional Hostageware": - Hostageware (Unmaintainable Source, Unmaintainable Standard) Hostageware can result from _any_ of the 4 above software. Using eccentric, underdocumented, etc... formats can result in Hostageware from Freedomware as much as any other. But our case, we are talking about a proprietary driver that provides interfaces for _open_standard_ GLX! Sorry, the whole "data hostage" junk doesn't hold. And you need to be a little more "open minded." Otherwise people like yourself just make me thing of what I also break down Freedomware into: - Freedomware: choosing to work together on Open Source/Standard - Commuware: forcing everyone to work on Open Source/Standard Freedom only works when people have the right to choose. -- Bryan P.S. I am a _huge_ fan of Red Hat's dedication to the GPL, and constantly defend Red Hat against unfair, uneven comments when companies like IBM get praise for spending $1B on maturing their product line, $100M for porting a 100% Commerceware application suite to Linux, and donations of GPL _in_compatible CPL/IPL software. But damn, sometimes people forget that we don't get all huffy on Red Hat about trademarks (which is a bigger story than most people care about), cut throat business tactics, etc... Why? Because Red Hat is dedicated to the GPL and community where it _legally_ can. nVidia is pretty much in the same boat too. Or do I have to remind people that nVidia _did_ release GLX source code back in the XFree 3.3.x days? This issue is very long and drawn out. -- Bryan J. Smith mailto:b.j.smith@xxxxxxxx -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
