On Thursday, July 2, 2020 1:30:41 PM MST Brandon Nielsen wrote: > On 7/2/20 3:19 PM, Martin Jackson wrote: > > > > > > >> 5-10 years? A better estimate would be 15-20 years. People aren't > >> going to > >> throw away perfectly fine systems and jump to new "cloud" platforms just > >> because the OS they were using dropped BIOS support. They'll just stop > >> updating, and likely move to something that is still supporting BIOS, > >> if they > >> don't write their own installer and just continue using Fedora, given > >> that > >> this is an entirely artificial limitation. > >> > >> > >> > > While I completely hear you on the fact that people will often sweat > > assets for years longer than accounting schedules suggest they should, > > do you really think they're going to write custom installers??? I think > > it's far more likely that they would move to other distros more amenable > > to supporting the hardware they have. > > > > There are many distros that cater to this kind of market already, some > > by design and some by inclination.?? I don't think we want to drive them > > there. > > > > For what it's worth, I do not think that removing legacy BIOS support > > from Fedora is the right thing to do.?? I don't see significant benefit, > > and I see lots of potential harm. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Marty > > > I don't think removing BIOS support _today_ is the right answer either. > I have BIOS only hardware kicking around, and quite a bit of my UEFI > hardware still supports legacy BIOS booting as well (though I don't use > it). > However, I'm concerned about UEFI feature development / quality > assurance being held hostage by BIOS support for, based on above > comments, 5 to 20 years? Surely as a somewhat leading-edge distribution, > we need to start thinking about some kind of post-BIOS world. > > Perhaps one small step toward that future would be enabling systemd-boot > on new UEFI installs, relegating GRUB2 to BIOS and upgrade installs > only? This split configuration could hang around until support for GRUB2 > / BIOS wanes to the point it can no longer stand under its own weight > (much like 32bit install media). GRUB2, which is a UEFI bootloader as well, is a far superior bootloader to systemd-bloat, and it supports usecases that are supported by Anaconda (the Fedora installer framework) that systemd-bloat doesn't, as addressed elsewhere in this thread by myself and several others. There is no way that supporting BIOS can be a cause for UEFI feature development being "held back". It's got nothing to do with UEFI stuff. -- John M. Harris, Jr. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
