On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 2:28:39 PM MST Jóhann B. Guðmundsson wrote:
> On 1.7.2020 21:00, Neal Gompa wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:34 PM Jóhann B. Guðmundsson
> > <johannbg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1.7.2020 16:10, Solomon Peachy wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 05:19:01PM +0200, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I'm currently using BIOS, grub, grub2 basically everywhere, even on
> >>>> fresh new machines,
> >>>
> >>> This won't be the case for much longer; Intel will finally drop CSM
> >>> ("BIOS") support this year.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Even putting that aside, for the past several years CSM/BIOS has been
> >>> slowly bitrotting due to a lack of real testing, as the last few
> >>> Windows
> >>> releases have mandated use of UEFI for preinstalled systems, plus the
> >>> EOLing of Windows 7 and (especially) XP.
> >>
> >> AMD is "strongly" recommending UEFI for the windows [1]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So Apple dropped CSM in 2006
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Intel in 2020
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> AMD is against it's use
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Windows has moved on with the curve...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > That's great and all, but of all the cloud providers, only Microsoft's
> > Azure / Hyper-V platform actually requires UEFI support. Nobody else
> > even supports it! Okay, AWS only supports it for AArch64, but not x86.
> >
> >
> >
> > KVM guys here are still recommending BIOS.
> >
> >
> >
> > We still can't use NVIDIA proprietary drivers on UEFI because Fedora's
> > kernel configuration is too strict for that. I personally consider it
> > a good thing, but that's a problem for others.
> >
> >
> >
> > Fix all the other problems we have with UEFI environments before
> > suggesting we drop "legacy BIOS".
> >
> >
> >
> > It's absolutely shameful that despite us being first to the UEFI
> > Secure Boot support, we *still* can't get things working fully in that
> > environment. And frankly, from what I can tell from all the people
> > involved: nobody cares except for the couple of people who ask every
> > few months why we can't have the NVIDIA driver signed and auto-trusted
> > so it works. I know every time I ask, people respond with "it's not
> > that simple" and more mumbles of Koji architecture problems.
> >
> >
> >
> > At this point, I personally don't want to see this proposal *ever*
> > come up again unless somebody cares about fixing the user experience
> > with UEFI.
>
>
> Based on the feedback here there are atleast 5 - 10 years before we can
> even consider removing it so no worries this wont come up again for a
> looong time but hopefully there are other areas we can improve upon
> which helps us improve the overall UEFI experience in Fedora etc.
>
> Perhaps it's not that people dont care and more that they are unaware of
> those problems I mean I personally was unaware of those problem and
> probably whole lot of other people here as well so could you list in
> more detail what exactly those user experience problems with UEFI are
> that you are aware of and we can try to compile a todo list to work with.
5-10 years? A better estimate would be 15-20 years. People aren't going to
throw away perfectly fine systems and jump to new "cloud" platforms just
because the OS they were using dropped BIOS support. They'll just stop
updating, and likely move to something that is still supporting BIOS, if they
don't write their own installer and just continue using Fedora, given that
this is an entirely artificial limitation.
--
John M. Harris, Jr.
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