-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hello, This email attempts to answer some frequently asked questions about Rust SIG packaging of crates. For those who don't know what a "crate" is: it is the name for a collection of functionality in Rust, similar to libraries (C/C++), modules (Python/Perl/PHP), gems (Ruby), etc. In Fedora, we package each crate separately and then use them as BuildRequires to build the binaries (applications/utilities). The crates are built and linked statically to each other, so they are not present on user’s systems. The resulting binary build only has non-Rust dependencies at runtime (standard library, C/C++ libraries, etc.). Many folks ask the Rust SIG many variations of the same questions, so we decided to provide a common set of questions and answers for that. ## Q: Why do you package those small bits separately than just vendoring (bundling) them? You (hopefully) all know that bundling is bad. There are many reasons for this ranging from security to maintainability to licensing compliance. This problem does not get better when your dependency graphs get very wide (as they do for languages like Rust, Go, Nodejs, etc.). When we package something, we: 1. Check licensing We make sure that acceptable (for Fedora) open source licenses are used, license files exist and contain proper license texts, ensure compatibility of the licenses in resulting binaries, keep track of changes and properly announcing any license changes to ensure that distribution of Fedora stays legal. 2. Build the software and run the tests We have found quite amount of * Architecture-related bugs * 32bit vs 64bit * big endian vs little endian * Dependency information not being correct * Breakages or issues in new versions of the Rust compiler And many others. Of course it would be nice if upstreams have extensive test coverage on all distros and platforms, but this is unfortunately not the case. Much of it has to do with the limitations of CI/CD services that are in common use (such as Travis CI, Azure DevOps, GitHub Actions, etc.). For example, Travis CI does not offer Fedora so people often only test things with some old version of Ubuntu LTS with a hodgepodge of tools and libraries with varying degrees of age. Unfortunately, this is simply not something the Rust SIG is capable of fixing. But when we do package it ourselves in Fedora, we catch these things and send fixes upstream to ensure that everyone benefits from the work we *can* do to make things better. 3. Integrate it with the rest of the distribution For example, many crates that are bindings to the C libraries tend to bundle C libraries instead of linking with system-provided shared libraries. Sometimes they will use the system-provided shared libraries only under specific circumstances. We patch them to always use system libraries and run the test suites to ensure that they actually work. This allows us to leverage the work that has been done to maintain system libraries to keep Rust software in good shape. As an example, libgit2-sys used to use system libgit2 only if some environment variable was set, we had patch from day 0 to change that condition and use system libgit2. As libgit2 is a library that tends to need security fixes often, doing this allows us to avoid having to rebuild any Rust applications that link to libgit2 whenever we fix libgit2 and roll out fixes *very* quickly. Now imagine that you'd need to apply all those fixes to each application which depends on libgit2-sys. Today, we have following in Fedora: * bat * cargo-c * exa * pretty-git-prompt * silver * starship Even though they are statically linked (in terms of crates), they use the standardized way of building packages in Fedora and it is possible to know which versions of which component was used to build them so that we can make adjustments as needed. ## Q: You patch crates and that harms the reputations of the upstream projects! Firstly, it's important to recognize that patching software in itself is not inherently bad. There are many reasons to do this, and it's a matter of having the right discipline to figure out what the right thing to do is. Secondly, when we *do* patch crates, we always send patches to the upstream projects and most of them are accepted. There are a few patches which have been rejected or not accepted. The most common reason for this is that upstream is dead, plain and simple. Finally, since we try to keep only the latest version of a crate in Fedora, the bulk of our patching is oriented around porting crates / applications to latest version of their dependencies, which is generally appreciated by upstream (unless they have some unusual compatibility promises). So we are often doing a good service to the upstream projects developing and maintaining those crates by sharing a bit of that burden and helping them move forward! ## Q: Why not to have mirror of crates.io in Fedora? I would ask same for every ecosystem, CPAN, RubyGems, PyPI, … It is simply not useful to make a 1:1 copy of upstream (see reasons above). There are things which must be done before content can appear in Fedora. If we can make it for crates.io, we will need to make it generic enough to support PyPI, CPAN and others. All of them have their own specifics and the tool will need to handle all of them. And then it would be different for ecosystems which do not have a language-specific package manager. We already have RPM packaging format and we can encode any kind of information in it, so you could analyze, do queries across all languages the same way. Licensing, dependencies, everything. Same way. I would be happy to have crates.fedoraproject.org which would be populated from RPMs so that people can use Cargo.toml and that would download crates with Fedora specifics. RPM spec files for Rust crates are generated using rust2rpm, then you just need to do manual steps which you need to do anyway even if you would have it on crates.fedoraproject.org. The pain points here are complicated importing process and manual build process in Fedora. Most of crates can be packaged as RPM in 5-10 minutes, but then it takes enormous time to actually get it reviewed and built in Koji, from an hour up to days. Again, this is not something Rust SIG can work on, but we are happy to provide feedback and help where we can. ## Q: Why don't you do dynamic linking? The answer is quite simple. There are 2 reasons: 1. Rust does not have stable ABI: https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs/issues/600 Building same thing twice with different versions of the compiler results in different (incompatible!) libraries, so you need to recompile them anyway. If the Rust language defines a standard ABI for Rust libraries, then we would change this. However, the Rust language developer team is not (currently) interested in that. 2. Features One of the greatest features of Rust is the standardized way of selecting features which library should have. That is very similar (same?) to what Python "extras" are. Think of it like extra features library has (e.g. JSON/YAML/TOML input/output support, colorful output). This usually means some new dependencies would be pulled in. That means, we would need to package all combinations of libraries or find a way how to teach Rust to load additional symbols from such "features" or even override them and what to do in case of conflicts. This is complicated and is not something what can be done in a few weeks. ## Q: All you do is just complicates packaging Rust software in Fedora! Yes and no. That is true that packaging some application can require adding tens of other dependencies and their dependencies. But in the end what you get is standardized build of an RPM with records of which packages were used in the build environment, proper integration done for every crate, and all the other benefits that packaging software in the distribution offers. - -- On behalf of Rust SIG, Igor Raits <ignatenkobrain@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Neal Gompa <ngompa13@xxxxxxxxx> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEcwgJ58gsbV5f5dMcEV1auJxcHh4FAl69nXkACgkQEV1auJxc Hh5vyA//SoShI5Yi+MqmCoLHlXGo/64YnH0RZBZoc7VEDpBN8oXFVn0Dcn4A+ipq vZ8Avj/WpchzZQf1AiLjiVYZ1NOzpyKOznPx2c9fQBcAZDIFTY9n98C741V5C8Qj 6TXh5ie9ga5tbfglcES48PoX0u+mRDYBs6PBt1XezPlUCIiIBfzv0UuM0aKdStEX TUCvGwJn/BAyXfVz5In0VwLv6RlL5rDqb9Yi1u5GbxWNYvKh26TvFnCvI1vHhD/Y NHcEStzcxcNiDyM/Vd3c+w5N+d5FRAbvBuobWhy/2Pa22D6Y1e8T2q7Sj7u11vZf NuxGXC/JymbAGaB7i5gIkGwkhvhUmgvLf7h40MrtR5Y3G9Z2iWCsTwpwhG1lv4kr tyMDI6m2a7Wb2yWV4clAFJKHYP3IQMwWfNHEMLBunAooOEORYdhIUHZvvTHbX5sp zX5Lt/n0O55x4YqA5YH/IcgMBJyxk9yOZNWojCCUKrfQ6WZ1QklIf3wZeSi9XV6x shSMCnqpbU285GYa2ne8ieUYH9U5cMuqrIrJEU1wafUsrHDN2Vm7Q0S1zUlebDId OgmUkS7qOZ7/aGB2eRXm4PomFSar7fUqnhvkPmDpwb7XhzqS8PAn7vTZzxwEpRZg FnM0vm1bcuY467zQqUJYZ4TDBMiXo7yJE6YYRWrtPjSuCbO6j0Q= =e324 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
