Re: AntiVirus?

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On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:49:15 -0500, Paul Iadonisi <pri.rhl3@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Both Chuck and Geoff are correct, IMO. AV is the wrong solution to the *alleged* future problem with Linux viruses. Go read http://www.linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus for a good debunking of that threat, as well as some good entertainment ;-). But something like clamav to protect *Windows clients* in a GNU/Linux based server environment does makes sense. At least until FOSS takes over the world.

The arguments in that essay are specious, IMO.

The root privilege separation would be no barrier to making an e-mail worm that propagates on Linux systems, or a "botnet" that can launch attacks on other network hosts.

It's true that the root separation limits the damage that a hostile program can do, but it doesn't eliminate it, and in the area of network attacks, the restrictions are quite limited. (Yeah, you need root to do an ICMP flood, but a UDP flood does the same damages and confounds sysadmins more; there are lots of phun things you can do with packets, but you can make any server go off the air without root privilege if you control 6000 bots.)

The 'immunity' of Linux and MacOS X is mainly immunological and cultural. People who use those OSes don't assume they can mail a binary to random people and expect them to run it. So mail clients require a few more clicks to do it in Linux (but not MacOS X;) nobody expects to fill up a Linux machine with commercial junkware, so nobody bothers writing spyware that hitches a ride on it. "root" separation does make the junk easier to remove than it would be otherwise, but doesn't stop it from being a problem.

When it comes down to it, the number of vulnerable machines that run non-Windows operating systems just isn't enough to get over the percolation threshold that makes many kind of worm attacks worthwhile.

Privilege escalation attacks are legion in all operating systems, and it's a good bet to assume that there will be some way to break root in FC4. Assuming that many people don't patch, this 'identical configuration' could be worth attacking if it goes over the percolation threshold.

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I'm no fan of AV software. It causes problems. (For instance, during a virus crisis I have to turn it off if I want to read my e-mail, because it will b0rk my e-mail program otherwise.) We had problems at a place where we worked because our AV filter was being triggered by an ordinary english string that happened to be inside a common virus.

The trouble with the whole "digital immune system" paradigm is that same as that of the real immune system. Our immune system is full of interlocks designed to prevent it from attacking 'self' cells. For instance, an immune receptor on a T- or B- cell won't get activated unless co-receptors get activated, and B-cells won't pump out antibodies until they get confirmation from a helper T-cell that there really is a problem.

Despite all that, almost 10% of people in the US are walking around with an asthma inhaler. 50 million Americans have allergies... Anything that tries to recognize "bad" patterns of bits or "bad" patterns of bad software behavior is going to have false alarms that sometimes makes the machine inoperable.


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