On Tue, Apr 9, 2019 at 8:40 PM Japheth Cleaver <cleaver@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Is this really worth the effort? cronie in F30 is a 103K package, and a > decent chunk of that might be the ChangeLog. crontabs is all of 18K, > which is 95% the GPL and the RPM header. It seems like a very small > price to pay for something everyone is going to assume will be on any > *nix-compatible system of note. I read, possibly misread, the original comment as being about the number of "unneeded" things in the install, not necessarily the weight of the specific packages. What I think we are hearing from containers, OSTree, etc. is that there is a group of people that wants their systems more minimal with less unnecessary stuff. Some of this is about resource-sizing (RAM, Disk, etc.), some is about update and security footprints, and some of it is about "psychic weight." I realize that we have to make these tradeoffs in some cases, for example, aiui, gnome-keyring is not able to be removed and still have a functional Gnome environment. But this isn't universally the case. This seems to go back to who is the primary target audience for our Workstation edition and what do they want/expect. Then we can document the changes and socialize them over a few releases so that other users can get to where they want to be. Basically "extra" isn't what no one wants, its what our defined target doesn't want/expect. I don't expect the tools I use to always be installed by default and I don't think anyone else on the list does either. It also speaks to our spins/labs as ways to take our existing software and reformulate the install to meet different users' needs. Lastly, taking a position on some of this, for example, removing cron, is a form of opinionation that calls back to our roots of innovating in the OS space. We would be saying, we recognize this is the way we did things X years ago, but there are new ways and processes and we see value in those. If we can't remove these things, then we are being a good distribution by pointing out where solutions that claim to fix something have fallen short so that those upstreams can make decisions about what to do. > The last thing I'd want to have to deal with is solving for a missing > /etc/cron.* because someone forgot to click a checkbox somewhere or > didn't call it out in kickstart. Yes, but I also don't want to deal with a security fix in cron when I didn't want it to begin with. Adding software the user doesn't want to have it as assumed for other users is always a trade-off. regards, bex _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
