On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 15:06:01 -0500, Gerald Henriksen <ghenriks@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Given that the process of moving packages out of Core and into Extras > has already started it seems to me to be a bad move to release a > version of Fedora that can't deal with this fact. Packages leave Core with every release. Packages left rhl with every release. The fact that packages now have some place to go with they leave is actually progress. Fedora Extras will be enabled by default in yum and up2date... this is progress.. compared to having to configure 3rd party repos that hold any missing packages that are dropped. > > These aren't packages that are obsolete or that people aren't using > anymore, but packages that for whatever reason no longer fit the > requirements to be in Core. Let's talk about the reason for a second.... java is FRELLING HUGE! If java had been ready for inclusion for rhl8 or rhl9 or any previus FC release.. the decision to include it would still have meant packages would be dropped. There is no getting around that.. just be glad there is an Extras for packages to go to... an Extras that will be enabled by default in the post-install package management tools included in the distro. Having Extras available at post-install time is progress...incremental progress. In a world without perfect solutions, incremental progress is the best you can expect. Java gets included.. the cd count doesn't go up for x86, people get access to Extras post-install....all for the price of not having some packages available at install time. Considering that extras or anything like it as NEVER been available by default at install time or post-install.. and that java has NEVER been available by default at install or post-install time....this is progress. No one has ever made promises that progress is linear or clean... 2 steps forward and 1 step back...its a cha-cha.. a bloody bare-knuckles knockdown dragout cha-cha... stiletto heels optional. You either agree that java is worth including and getting out to people in the scheduled fc4 time frame or you don't. I for one think the long term benefits of including an actual honest to god open source implementation of java and getting it into wide circulation via fc4 far outweighs whatever short term cost one incurs by making space for it now through careful pruning of duplicate or extraneous packages. Putting those packages into Extras is a remarkable bonus. The timing of things could very well have been worse, java could have been ready to roll as part of Core for fc2 or fc3 and extras could have slipped back again. But if Extras wasn't here right now.. I doubt this decision would have gone differently. The birth of open source java was foretold in ages past..or at least by the fact that some prep work went into fc2 and fc3, that was sort of a big hint that java was on the horizon for inclusion. Hopefully some of the issues surrounding Extras for dialup users and non-networked users can be clearup by making sure vendors such as cheapbytes or community lugs can spin up isos from extras with as little hassle as possible to be used post-install. > If Red Hat and the people in charge of Fedora want people to view > Extras as a postive change ... I'm not sure what to really say about this. People who expect perfection at every step in a long multifacetted process are setting themselves up for continual disappointment. The existance of Extras is absolutely a positive change... but integrating fully with the evolving development process of Core is not going to happen overnight... its not going to happen in one release cycle. -jef
