On Mon, 17 Dec 2018 at 13:21, John Harris <johnmh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:57:56 PM EST Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > The reason is that discourse and other many other tools people 'want' > > are not light weight 'oh just throw a server up and have your thing in > > 2 minutes and never look at it again'. They are tools which you need a > > lot of infrastructure set up and running, and a strong commitment of > > time and effort to keep running. Once you set it up beyond the base > > example version every website says you can do, you find that more and > > more staff and time are devoted to keeping it going.. just like the > > Fedora Build System and all its related tools take up a lot of time, > > effort, and money. When you try to run these in parallel or in 'spare > > time' you end up with the main 'product' slowing down, and the others > > ones getting stretched out because the amount of time you can put > > towards it eats into the main product. > > > > So it becomes very compelling to let a company that is dedicated to > > running the complex tool to do so. > > I'm sorry, but as a sysadmin, especially with experience un-dockerizing > Discourse, I just can't take that at face value. Discourse, though a pain to > update, is not really that hard to host. Maybe an hour of effort a week, max, > if you're doing it entirely manually. Sure, complexity increases when you add > plugins, but not significantly. > The problem is that is only 10% of the work. There are all sorts of user requests and troubleshooting that have to be dealt with every week. When I say it takes time and energy, I am meaning the holistic time commitment which we deal with on any tool that Fedora Infrastructure does. For a social tool, it would cover 1. GPDR and similar rules. Write policies and scripts to remove anything that meets that. 2. Spam. Deal with clean up of spam posts. The easier the login, the more that everything from trolls to spam-companies will use it to enhance their message of the week. 3. Dealing with user login, post, can't connect, why is IPv6 not working today, etc. 4. User training. [Anything from 'read these websites to learn more about Linux' to 'the website does say that.. but it doesn't seem to work that way. there is a bug to fix that.'] 5. Search engine optimization and troubleshooting. Determining why Google/Bing/etc decided that your very important discussion isn't on the top page when you searched for it. 6. Updates/reinstalls/expansion/removal/repackaging/unbundling/etc. 7. Automatic configuration scripting and setup to whatever new things needed due to 6. 8. backups and restores. and probably a dozen other things which may seem like little things but the larger the number of users the more it takes up. In the corporate and .edu world most of these would be answered and covered by a Helpdesk. This doesn't work well in volunteer spaces because it takes a lot of emotional energy to be polite, engaging, etc to angry grumpy users... and people burn out quickly. So that leaves the infrastructure team to handle all of the items. -- Stephen J Smoogen. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
