On Mon, 2018-12-17 at 13:20 -0500, John Harris wrote: > On Monday, December 17, 2018 12:57:56 PM EST Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > The reason is that discourse and other many other tools people 'want' > > are not light weight 'oh just throw a server up and have your thing in > > 2 minutes and never look at it again'. They are tools which you need a > > lot of infrastructure set up and running, and a strong commitment of > > time and effort to keep running. Once you set it up beyond the base > > example version every website says you can do, you find that more and > > more staff and time are devoted to keeping it going.. just like the > > Fedora Build System and all its related tools take up a lot of time, > > effort, and money. When you try to run these in parallel or in 'spare > > time' you end up with the main 'product' slowing down, and the others > > ones getting stretched out because the amount of time you can put > > towards it eats into the main product. > > > > So it becomes very compelling to let a company that is dedicated to > > running the complex tool to do so. > > I'm sorry, but as a sysadmin, especially with experience un-dockerizing > Discourse, I just can't take that at face value. Discourse, though a pain to > update, is not really that hard to host. Maybe an hour of effort a week, max, > if you're doing it entirely manually. Sure, complexity increases when you add > plugins, but not significantly. updating it is part of hosting it responsibly. So is doing 'is it up?' monitoring, backing up its storage, updating its host platform and rebooting it regularly. These are all things infra does for infra- hosted projects; each infra-hosted project adds to that burden, especially for events like 'there was a critical kernel security update so we have to reboot just about everything'. > I just hope we're not paying for that thing, though we probably are. If Fedora was hosting it, we'd be paying our Fedora infra team to maintain it. The question is only whether it's more efficient to do that, or to pay someone else. At this point Fedora has so many self-hosted projects that the infra team is mostly treading water: it has to spend so much time just keeping all those balls in the air that it doesn't have a lot of time to *improve* anything. This is a problem, and the reason why that team is generally trying to *reduce* the amount of services they are responsible for, not increase it. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
