On Thu, 2018-01-18 at 09:28 +0100, David Demelier wrote: > Hello all, > > Since systemd-networkd is a mature network system daemon nowadays, > NetworkManager can be avoided in many cases where people do not need > desktop features. > > I propose to remove NetworkManager from the “Core” group and mark it > as > optional or eventually move it into a dedicated group. Perhaps > “Common > NetworkManager Submodules”? > > What do you think? > Hi, the message doesn't give much motivation beside "can be avoided in many cases". I would be intrested in your exact criticism. NetworkManager aims to be a viable solution for nearly all use cases, and it is (arguably) the only real solution for many. This is the reason, why I believe NetworkManager by default is the best choice. NetworkManager cannot be better suited then systemd-netword in every possible scenario. That's because systemd-networkd is well done and works stellar in scenarios for which it is intended. But from that it doesn't logically follow that systemd-networkd is a better fit to use by default. At least not today and not unless it supports "crazy" features like: - connect to Wi-Fi (without resorting to configuring wpa-supplicant files) - connect bluetooth or WWan (with reasonable effort) - GUI integration - VPN support - allow non-root users to connect to a network. - NetworkManager aims to provide a de-facto standard networking API on D-Bus that other components can use. For example GUIs, Cockpit, ansible (still needs improvements), FleetCommander. Of course, all these features could be provided by networkd too. But that is a lot of work and years down the road, if ever. One day networkd probaly will get a D-Bus API, as people are free to invest work whereever the choose -- of course. But that brings a push to extend GUIs to handle these backends. The client tools for networking are already not as great as they could be, mostly due to lacking man power. The awesome programmer who adds D-Bus API to networkd won't likely be around to integrate it with client tools. In the end, this just creates more work when there is already not enough man power. I am a NetworkManager developer and don't have objective views. But the prospect of fragmenting the area more is not appealing to me. We have NetworkManager, systemd-networkd, ConnMan, wicked, wicd (unmaintained), and possibly more. You may bet on any of the other tools to catch up fast and become more awesome the NetworkManager. But let me point out that NetworkManager is here today and very willing to improve and make *your* usecase work better. best, Thomas
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