=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2017-01-20) =================================== Meeting started by nirik at 16:00:05 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2017-01-20/fesco.2017-01-20-16.00.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (nirik, 16:00:05) * #1635 F26 Self Contained Changes (nirik, 16:04:33) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1635 (nirik, 16:04:33) * AGREED: Fontconfig cache directory change approved (+7,0,0) (nirik, 16:10:54) * AGREED: Automated AMI test and release change is approved (+8,0,0) (nirik, 16:21:05) * AGREED: will wait a week for more discussion on Transdiff. (+7,0,0) (nirik, 16:24:25) * #1665 Unresponsive maintainer: affix (nirik, 16:24:37) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1665 (nirik, 16:24:37) * LINK: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/XOX7WLYKUY2LZ6H7M3WPEUF7ZON3HU2K/ (dgilmore, 16:26:40) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1145830 (dgilmore, 16:27:42) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1479 (dgilmore, 16:28:04) * AGREED: will orphan affixes packages (+7,0,0) (nirik, 16:29:24) * #1668 F26 System Wide Change: GCC7 (nirik, 16:29:38) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1668 (nirik, 16:29:38) * AGREED: GCC7 change is approved (+7,0,0) (nirik, 16:32:14) * #1669 F26 System Wide Change: Parallel Installable Debuginfo (nirik, 16:32:22) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1669 (nirik, 16:32:22) * AGREED: Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+7,0,0) (nirik, 16:35:27) * Next week's chair (nirik, 16:37:12) * people traveling next week so no meeting on 2017-01-27 (nirik, 16:40:03) * sgallagh will chair the 2017-02-03 meeting (nirik, 16:40:17) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issues (nirik, 16:41:05) * Open Floor (nirik, 16:42:20) Meeting ended at 16:45:26 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * nirik (79) * dgilmore (40) * sgallagh (22) * Rathann (20) * kalev (16) * zodbot (15) * jsmith (14) * jforbes (9) * maxamillion (9) * ignatenkobrain (4) * jwb (0) -- 16:00:05 <nirik> #startmeeting FESCO (2017-01-20) 16:00:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Jan 20 16:00:05 2017 UTC. The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:00:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 16:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2017-01-20)' 16:00:05 <nirik> #meetingname fesco 16:00:05 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 16:00:05 <nirik> #chair maxamillion dgilmore jwb nirik jforbes jsmith kalev sgallagh Rathann 16:00:05 <zodbot> Current chairs: Rathann dgilmore jforbes jsmith jwb kalev maxamillion nirik sgallagh 16:00:05 <nirik> #topic init process 16:00:11 <Rathann> hi 16:00:19 <nirik> who all is around? :) 16:00:20 <maxamillion> .hello maxamillion 16:00:21 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@xxxxxxxxx> 16:00:25 <jforbes> .hello jforbes 16:00:27 <zodbot> jforbes: jforbes 'Justin M. Forbes' <jforbes@xxxxxxxxxx> 16:00:28 <ignatenkobrain> hi everyone 16:00:49 <nirik> sgallagh said he would be a few min late. 16:02:10 <Rathann> .hello rathann 16:02:10 * nirik waits for at least one more 16:02:11 <zodbot> Rathann: rathann 'Dominik Mierzejewski' <dominik@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 16:04:05 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh 16:04:06 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@xxxxxxxxxx> 16:04:24 <nirik> alrighty. Thats 5, so lets go ahead and start. ;) 16:04:33 <nirik> #topic #1635 F26 Self Contained Changes 16:04:33 <nirik> .fesco 1635 16:04:33 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1635 16:04:35 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1635: F26 Self Contained Changes - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1635 16:04:40 <jsmith> .hello jsmith 16:04:41 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@xxxxxxxxx> 16:04:42 <jsmith> Sorry I'm late 16:04:43 <nirik> there's several of these, shall we do them one at a time? 16:04:47 <nirik> no worries 16:04:53 <dgilmore> hola 16:04:58 <sgallagh> Do we want to cover the fontconfig one separately? 16:05:02 <sgallagh> (First, or later?) 16:05:06 <nirik> sure, lets do it first 16:05:15 <nirik> sgallagh: you talked with folks about that? 16:05:22 <sgallagh> Yes, see the comment in the ticket 16:05:28 <nirik> yeah. 16:05:28 <sgallagh> I can summarize here, though. 16:05:57 <nirik> if you like. I'm +1 at this point 16:06:00 <sgallagh> The short version is that I think the primary confusion in the debate is the word "cache" and the different participants' definitions thereof. 16:06:12 * kalev appears in a poof of magic. 16:06:14 <kalev> sorry guys, a bit late here 16:06:15 <jforbes> I read the summary in the ticket, +1 here as well 16:06:16 <Rathann> yes, it makes sense now 16:06:33 <kalev> +1 from me too, makes a lot of sense now 16:06:36 <kalev> thanks sgallagh for checking it 16:06:37 <jsmith> +1 to the fontconfig index from me 16:06:40 <Rathann> is the index portable between arches? 16:06:42 <maxamillion> +1 here as well 16:06:53 <Rathann> if yes, then perhaps /usr/share/fontconfig would be a better location 16:07:15 <dgilmore> while not ideal ostree could run fc-cache on boot for changes 16:07:23 <dgilmore> but that data can be moved 16:07:41 <sgallagh> dgilmore: I suggested that as well, but they would prefer to avoid special-casing things 16:08:02 <sgallagh> If they were going to do a special-case, they'd rather just add a symlink for the ostree case. 16:08:10 <jsmith> sgallagh: Agreed... 16:08:13 <nirik> thats +5, other votes? 16:08:14 <sgallagh> Rathann: I did not think to ask that question. 16:08:45 <sgallagh> I'm +1 to my own proposal, if that was unclear. 16:09:11 <Rathann> +1 anyway 16:09:53 <dgilmore> sgallagh: we could make everyone run it via systemd but sure 16:10:54 <nirik> #agreed Fontconfig cache directory change approved (+7,0,0) 16:11:17 <dgilmore> I am honestly not sure how to vote on it 16:11:27 <nirik> ok, we have also Transdiff and Automated AMI test and release. 16:11:59 <Rathann> Transdiff doesn't warrant a change in my opinion 16:13:14 <dgilmore> i thin the ami testing means fed-img not fedming 16:13:26 <dgilmore> fed-img is teh tool that uploads the images 16:13:27 <sgallagh> I am +1 to both, personally 16:13:51 <Rathann> also, Transdiff is more for upstreams than for package maintainers 16:14:05 <nirik> well, without the change people may not know transdiff exists to run it? but yeah... seems more end user than changey 16:14:18 <dgilmore> the change also directly effectes releng even though it says it doesn't :( 16:14:20 <jforbes> +1 to both as well 16:15:10 <dgilmore> the ami uploading I think needs some more detail but I am +1 to the idea 16:15:20 <kalev> +1 to both 16:15:39 <Rathann> +1 to AMI, -1 to Transdiff 16:15:52 <dgilmore> I think transdiff really should be done in taskotron, or elsewhere, but that could be done in addition 16:16:00 <Rathann> Changes are not just for marketing 16:16:08 <nirik> well, or transdiff could just be a release note. ;) 16:16:12 <Rathann> exactly 16:16:14 <jsmith> Rathann: I'm curious, why are you against transdiff? 16:16:47 <nirik> dgilmore: taskotron integration would be very good there I agree. 16:17:02 <Rathann> I don't see anything in that proposal that would require a Change proposal 16:18:04 <dgilmore> are we expecting users to run transdiff? 16:18:09 <nirik> that was mentioned on the list and they were going to investigate taskotron integration... 16:18:29 <nirik> dgilmore: that seems like the case yeah... 16:18:52 <nirik> "oh, my translations are out of date" "hey upstream, please do a new release" 16:19:09 <jsmith> I'm +1 to both transdiff and AMI testing 16:19:30 <dgilmore> I am not opposed to it. I think there is different interaction points we should look at 16:19:44 <dgilmore> but I will give it a +1 also 16:19:50 <nirik> I guess I can be +1 to both 16:20:22 <maxamillion> I'm +1 to AMI ... still pondering Transdiff 16:20:30 * nirik counts 16:20:41 <dgilmore> transdiff I really am on the fence about it beinga change 16:20:47 <dgilmore> I think its a useful tool 16:21:05 <nirik> #agreed Automated AMI test and release change is approved (+8,0,0) 16:21:13 <jforbes> it's more about marketing really 16:21:19 <nirik> do we want to punt for more list discussion? it kind of petered out... 16:21:32 <maxamillion> I think it's an useful tool, I just don't fully understand the scope of the Change ... are we just introducing that package to Fedora? is this being incorporated in the build/release pipeline? 16:21:34 <dgilmore> but I think taskotron, and test cases in openqa are probably better places for integration and can get things reported and fixed more rapidly 16:21:41 <nirik> I know Rathann asked why it should be a change and never really got an answer 16:21:41 <Rathann> not to mention the proposal contains "More details TBD", "Will provide later." etc. 16:22:10 <nirik> maxamillion: yes, just the package. no to anything further at this time 16:22:20 <Rathann> yes, it looks like my question was silently ignored 16:22:22 <Rathann> or missed 16:22:37 <dgilmore> Rathann: probably no answer 16:22:42 <dgilmore> not sure the change owners are here 16:22:43 <nirik> proposal: wait a week for this change for more discussion on list 16:22:49 <dgilmore> as they would have to answer it 16:22:52 <dgilmore> nirik: +1 16:23:10 <Rathann> +1 16:23:18 <nirik> +1 my own proposal 16:23:32 <maxamillion> +1 16:23:44 <kalev> +1 16:23:52 <jforbes> +1 I can agree on that 16:24:02 <jsmith> +1, seems fair 16:24:25 <nirik> #agreed will wait a week for more discussion on Transdiff. (+7,0,0) 16:24:37 <nirik> #topic #1665 Unresponsive maintainer: affix 16:24:37 <nirik> .fesco 1665 16:24:37 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1665 16:24:38 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1665: Unresponsive maintainer: affix - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1665 16:24:55 <nirik> so I'm not sure this went through the process... 16:25:36 <nirik> but they are definitely non responsive in bz 16:26:40 <dgilmore> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/XOX7WLYKUY2LZ6H7M3WPEUF7ZON3HU2K/ 16:26:57 <dgilmore> nirik: an email was sent to devel@ in November last year 16:26:58 <nirik> ah, there was a devel post, ok. 16:27:07 <kalev> ahh, good 16:27:30 <nirik> so, sure +1 to orphaning 16:27:33 <kalev> would also be nice to add unresponsive maintainters to the pagure ticket, so they can see what's going on 16:27:34 <dgilmore> nirik: and it is not the first time he/shee has come up non responsive 16:27:36 <Rathann> affix hasn't logged in to FAS since May last year 16:27:38 <kalev> but +1 anyway 16:27:38 <sgallagh> I'm always in favor of handing a package over to someone willing to actually maintain it. 16:27:39 <sgallagh> +1 16:27:42 <dgilmore> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1145830 16:27:42 <Rathann> so, +1 16:28:04 <dgilmore> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1479 16:28:12 <dgilmore> +1 16:28:21 <jforbes> +1 here 16:29:08 <maxamillion> +1 16:29:20 <maxamillion> apologies, need to step afk for a couple minutes 16:29:24 <nirik> #agreed will orphan affixes packages (+7,0,0) 16:29:38 <nirik> #topic #1668 F26 System Wide Change: GCC7 16:29:38 <nirik> .fesco 1668 16:29:38 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1668 16:29:39 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1668: F26 System Wide Change: GCC7 - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1668 16:29:41 <nirik> +1 here 16:29:53 <kalev> +1 as well, would be good to get this as soon as possible in rawhide 16:29:54 <dgilmore> +1 top gcc 16:29:56 <dgilmore> to 16:29:58 <sgallagh> +1 16:30:41 <jforbes> +1 as well 16:30:43 <dgilmore> kalev: agreed sooner is better 16:31:26 <Rathann> +1 16:31:43 <dgilmore> jsmith: what say you? 16:31:59 <jsmith> +1 16:32:14 <nirik> #agreed GCC7 change is approved (+7,0,0) 16:32:15 <jsmith> (Sorry, got pulled into a phone call for ${DAYJOB}) 16:32:22 <nirik> #topic #1669 F26 System Wide Change: Parallel Installable Debuginfo 16:32:22 <nirik> .fesco 1669 16:32:22 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1669 16:32:24 <nirik> +1 here 16:32:24 <zodbot> nirik: Issue #1669: F26 System Wide Change: Parallel Installable Debuginfo - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1669 16:32:37 <jforbes> very big +1 here 16:33:22 <dgilmore> +1 16:33:23 <ignatenkobrain> isn't it duplicate of F25 change? 16:33:33 <jsmith> +1 from me... 16:33:37 <nirik> It wasn't done in time for f25. 16:33:38 <kalev> +1, this is an area that has been lacking in improvements for a while 16:33:59 <sgallagh> +1, but I'm slightly concerned about potential cleanup... debuginfo packages are BIG 16:34:54 <ignatenkobrain> nirik: ah, right. Thought that it's some similar, but not same 16:35:05 <nirik> #agreed Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+6,0,0) 16:35:08 <kalev> sgallagh: what cleanup do you mean? 16:35:16 <Rathann> +1 from me as well 16:35:23 <nirik> #undo 16:35:23 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: AGREED by nirik at 16:35:05 : Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+6,0,0) 16:35:27 <nirik> #agreed Parallel Installable Debuginfo Change is approved (+7,0,0) 16:35:38 <sgallagh> kalev: Today, if I install a newer version of the glibc debuginfo, it removes the older one, saving space 16:35:39 <nirik> I think folks that know to use debuginfo packages can manage them... 16:35:45 <sgallagh> With this change, I now have two large packages. 16:35:59 <sgallagh> nirik: Yeah, which is why I voted +1, but it's still in the back of my mind 16:36:02 <ignatenkobrain> sgallagh: do you? 16:36:32 * nirik typically installs, debugs and removes. 16:36:52 <nirik> anyhow, anything more on this? 16:36:56 * maxamillion is back ... apologies 16:37:10 <sgallagh> Shall we move on? 16:37:12 <nirik> #topic Next week's chair 16:37:17 <nirik> who wants it next week? 16:37:28 <kalev> I can do it 16:37:38 <dgilmore> will we have enough people for the meeting next week?> 16:37:48 <kalev> ahh, good question 16:37:59 * maxamillion will not be available 16:38:00 * nirik should be around 16:38:00 <sgallagh> I will not be attending 16:38:08 * dgilmore will be at devconf 16:38:09 * jforbes will be here 16:38:15 * kalev will be here 16:38:22 <dgilmore> and at fosdem the week after 16:38:27 <sgallagh> I'll take Feb 03 though 16:39:01 <nirik> so sounds like we won't have enough people next week? 16:39:07 <dgilmore> sounds like it 16:39:24 <nirik> kalev: you want feb 3rd or want sgallagh to have it? 16:39:35 <dgilmore> jsmith: will you be here next week? 16:39:35 <kalev> nirik: sgallagh can have it 16:39:42 <nirik> ok. 16:39:54 <jsmith> dgilmore: I should be, yes? 16:40:03 <nirik> #info people traveling next week so no meeting on 2017-01-27 16:40:08 <dgilmore> so likely only 4 people 16:40:17 <nirik> #info sgallagh will chair the 2017-02-03 meeting 16:40:23 <jsmith> dgilmore: By "here", I mean in IRC, not "there" physically 16:40:43 <nirik> We have a number of old tickets... I didn't ping any of them but we could address some if we want... 16:41:05 <nirik> https://pagure.io/fesco/issues 16:41:15 <dgilmore> jsmith: that is what I was asking 16:41:37 <jsmith> Might be good to do a bit of housekeeping 16:42:02 <nirik> yeah, I didn't want to last night... was late, but I or someone could ping on them soon. 16:42:09 <nirik> Would be good to get some done. 16:42:17 <nirik> Anyhow, that takes us to... 16:42:20 <nirik> #topic Open Floor 16:42:21 <dgilmore> I do not think we will get a good answer for https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1444 and given our future paths it seems like it may no longer be relevant 16:42:23 <nirik> anything for open floor? 16:42:51 <nirik> dgilmore: indeed. 16:43:50 <dgilmore> nirik: I will close it 16:43:58 <nirik> fine with me. :) 16:44:08 <sgallagh> ack 16:44:15 <nirik> ok, if nothing else will close out in a minute%rand 16:44:34 <jsmith> Nothing from me for the open floor 16:45:23 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone! 16:45:26 <nirik> #endmeeting
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