Thanks.. I forgot an important part. 5. People comment about the broken cycle and then various people nitpick that comment in some fashion that doesn't improve anything but 'proves' that they are 'correcter' than the commenter. Overall everyone involved feels worse off. On 2 June 2016 at 16:31, Howard Chu <hyc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Stephen John Smoogen wrote: >> >> 1. There is a problem for a certain group that systemd people care >> about (usually desktop but not always). >> 2. Systemd puts in a fix for that problem. > > > In this timeline, your step (2) is crucially missing a piece. Systemd has > put in a *change* but it has been shown *not* to address the actual problem. > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/RYKLRYGPNGA6USK4RMDV6FDXTHYIJXZ7/ > > It's also quite obviously *not* an actual fix, it is a bandaid at best and > the real problems remain in other code. > > Whether or not there's any actual security benefit to the change is a pure > non-sequitur. The fact remains that the original problem that prompted the > change hasn't been fixed, while numerous legitimate use cases spanning 30+ > years of practice get broken. This is *not* good software engineering, by > any measure. > >> 3. Someone who isn't using the system that way gets affected and >> asks/complains/bitches about the fix (depending on the person). >> 4. Communication goes down hill with the following items you can >> checkmark regularly: >> A. Someone 'representing' systemd says its right and it is dragging >> the neanderthals into the light of 21st century computing. >> B. Someone 'representing' grognards says its right and it doesn't >> want know-it-all eggheads pissing on it all the time. >> C. Someone 'explains' how this fixes a security problem. >> D. Someone 'explains' how it causes a security problem. >> E. Both sides tear apart each others arguments. >> F. Both sides yells, screams, throws insults, emails 'anonymous' >> death threats to people in the other side. >> G. Both sides say they are going to take their toys and go home. >> H. Eventually FESCO has to play adult and tell the groups to work >> together or no one gets to play. >> >> I am guessing we are hitting E and will be going to F soon. G will >> come sometime after F24 is released (usually 2-3 weeks after release). >> H. will happen after the deadline for features in F25 occurs. >> >> [PS I do not condone or think that any of the steps are good or should >> be done. It just seems to be the standard bingo for this software. >> Someone might also be able to put dnf or GNOME into similar >> categories. ] >> >> > > > -- > -- Howard Chu > CTO, Symas Corp. http://www.symas.com > Director, Highland Sun http://highlandsun.com/hyc/ > Chief Architect, OpenLDAP http://www.openldap.org/project/ > -- > devel mailing list > devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
